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The Screw-Gate 'Biner

TC3

Headache !
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
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Michigan
...Revisited.
Are they of any use at all in our industry ?
Anybody want a free one ? PM me & pay the postage, I'll gladly have it out of my world. Brand spanking new & a twenty dollar bill flushed.
 

Paul B

I dig hammocks.
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
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Location
Burnaby BC
I have three or four old ones from my rock climbing and camping days. I sometimes use them to put junk on my saddle, but not much else, they arent beefy enough for rigging (like I do that anyways) and you arent sposed to use them for your personal tie in system, right?
 
F

Frans

Guest
If they are 'key lock' then they are alot easier to use to connect rigging straps...
 
H

Hobby Climber

Guest
T,

Why not keep them for attaching stuff to a speed line? Always nice to have a few extra biners on hand! Just a thought is all.

But if your still looking at getting rid of them, I'd be happy to take them off your hands. I'll give you my father-in-laws address in Sterling Heights MI if they haven't been spoken for yet.

PM sent, ...but I still think you should keep them!


HC
 

Ax-Man

Don't make me chop you
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
705
Location
N.E. Illinois
I use a 50 and 70 kn screw gate biners for our porta wrap, 5to 1,ect. Just about anywhere a connecting attachment link is needed that does not be need to be continually connected or disconnected.

I like those screw gates much better than the locking gates. Just spin them to open or spin them to close them.

I'd keep it myself, never throw out or sell a biner unless it just won't function at all. That is just my thoughts.
 

pantheraba

More biners!!!
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
13,053
Location
near Atlanta
I use one on the saw end of my saw lanyard...and one on my saddle where my chest "bandoleer" attaches. I have a daisy chain of loops that I wear bandoleer style to attach biners, first aid, etc.
 

TC3

Headache !
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...never throw out or sell a biner unless it just won't function at all. That is just my thoughts.
I'd have to agree, Ax.
'Cept for the fact that I've never felt comfortable with the screw gate. Even for odd uses, there have been so many times when I thought the gate was screwed tight when it was actually the exact opposite.
I just don't trust it... More to the point, I don't trust myself.
 

OTGBOSTON

punk in drublic
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
4,181
Location
Tha Dirty Bean...Boston Massachusetts
speedline, thats it for me. Kind of strange how people will just buy 'biners not paying attention to their design/specific use. For me it's petzl OK and Hms, and I have a few of those CMI mighty mouses. Man I love buying gear:D
 
B

Bounce

Guest
If it isn't gone yet, WileyP and myself are having a disagreement about how strong a screw lock biner is when using it to choke a lanyard onto a tree (as in the article picture). I say not strong enough to attach my life to (because of force applied to side of gate); he says it's good enough. Feel like choking a webbing lanyard to a tree and shock loading it? It's not exactly scientific, but it would give us something to base our disagreement on.
 

SkwerI

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
18,025
Location
central Florida
Sean, IMO you need to have it wrapped around a fairly small limb in order to side load the carabiner. It's something to be aware of when positioning your gear but it's never been an issue for me.
 

wiley_p

Climbing Up
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
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Location
West Coast
I am way undergunned getting into any kind of physics discussion with Sean, Hell, I can't even spell the kind of math he understands.:D
 

Burnham

Woods walker
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
18,423
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Western Oregon
I'm with Skwerly on this one...bigger than about 16 inches, I can't see enough side load to make a significant difference, though under 6 inches I'd be thinking hard about it.

I'm sure I'm also outdone in the mathmatics department by Sean, or almost anyone else, so my opinion is less than scientifically based.

I've had a small fortune in screwlock biners sitting in a box ever since the FS decided to follow ANSI into autolock hell...can you tell what my opinion is? :)
 

wiley_p

Climbing Up
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
1,691
Location
West Coast
I'm with you on that Burnham. Funny, NFPA guidelines, ALL high angle rope rescue allows the use of screw gates, yet somehow they are not deemed safe for life support in tree work.
 

Burnham

Woods walker
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
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Western Oregon
Well, we DO have that "running rope" thing going on moreso than any other vert. discipline...nonetheless, in more than 30 years of institutionalized FS climbing program, where records are kept on every incident/accident, we have never had a fall caused by a screwlock opening or being left open accidentally.

'Course, we train and certify/re-certify to a high degree, which has to be a factor in our successful safety record.
 

TC3

Headache !
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Training is the key Burnham. That is something that is sorely lacking in the private sector.
You're right.
But I can tell you that I did receive some training by a very reputable climber (who shall remain anonymous) and during the demonstration of fall protection caught his own mistake of a screw gate carabiner being all the way loose instead of tightened.
If a seasoned climber can screw it up (no pun intended >>> no, really!), then I surely won't trust that piece of gear. Ever.
No record of an accident caused by this = it's never happened ???
 
B

Bounce

Guest
I used to use a screw lock biner to hold by macrograb flipline adjuster onto my saddle. I switched it out for a twist locking biner the day it fell off. :O I don't know how it happened, but then again I don't really care either. It's like going down the freeway one day and hitting the brakes only to realize you got nuthin. Even if those brakes worked fine every other day before that, how can you ever trust them again? That's assuming you live through the experience of course.

Sure the twist lock style carabiners are more difficult to open than the screw lockers, but that's the whole point isn't it? If they were easy to open they wouldn't be very safe would they? It took a little practice, but now I can open one with one hand while upside down and on fire during a tornado in a dynamite factory (ok - slight exageration, but close enough to reality). As long as it doesn't interfere with my productivity, I don't think there is such a thing as "too safe."

This is just my perspective though. You all gotta use what you believe in.
 

Burnham

Woods walker
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Mar 7, 2005
Messages
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Location
Western Oregon
You're right.
But I can tell you that I did receive some training by a very reputable climber (who shall remain anonymous) and during the demonstration of fall protection caught his own mistake of a screw gate carabiner being all the way loose instead of tightened.
If a seasoned climber can screw it up (no pun intended >>> no, really!), then I surely won't trust that piece of gear. Ever.
No record of an accident caused by this = it's never happened ???
I'm not sure I see your point, Teresa. If the expereienced climber caught the mistake, then his system of checking his fall protection before use worked as it should. He didn't screw anything up, he checked and corrected it, or am I misunderstanding?

And if you or anyone else thinks that by using an autolock biner you have either prevented the possibility that it will fail to lock, or that you have made it such that you no longer need to check the biner each time you use it, you are sadly mistaken.

In an agency climbing program as heavily controlled as the USFS one, I am pretty comfortable saying that if it was not reported, no climber was injured or killed due to a biner failure. Sure, it might happen, but so many required things would have to NOT happen for it to slip by that it gets to be a tiny possibility.
 

TC3

Headache !
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A cop that reports that there were never any cases of perp abuse will have a well documented history of that.
Burn, I do not mean to ram horns with you, but you've got to be f***ing joking me if you want me to believe that since there are no gov't. documented cases of screw gate failure, then it's a "given" that they don't exist ?
I refuse to argue about that.
All I know is from my own experience, I cannot rely on the screw-gate 'biner 100%.
I suspect that's my fault, since I have zero experience in the field. I do not mean that sarcasticallly... I truly have no experience.
I just know that my screw-gate 'biner can't be far enough away from me.
That speaks for my inexperience, in the truest fashion.
 

No_Bivy

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
6,002
biner failure is rare...operator error is more common.....CHECK, CHECK, DOUBLE CHECK!
biners....got to love em'
gravity check here.....non locker too:O
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Stumper

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Mar 6, 2005
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Location
Colorado
Confession. Being a radical rebellious sort I sometimes use screwgates for my second tie in when double or triple crotching. I know-I can(some would say should) carry more triple locks for those applications...but those little Positrons are so darn delightfully tiny, slick and efficient!
 
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