The Official Work Pictures Thread

[PCTREE]

I think they are using two legs of rope to support the cut log however I would argue that the friction thimble thingy should be on the static tree and the pulley should be on the felled log so the 2 legs can better share the load and the brake can do its thing

 

[mistahbenn]

Isnt one a pull rope?

 

[PCTREE]

Im talking about that fat orange line being doubled up to lower the piece..... Look young Jedi and it will be seen

 

[mistahbenn]

Thats that new double pulley rigging method that I think is a huge waste of time... Cant remember where I saw it, prob faceAche..Supposed to lessen the forces. Blah blah

 

[Limbrat]

I think they are using two legs of rope to support the cut log however I would argue that the friction thimble thingy should be on the static tree and the pulley should be on the felled log so the 2 legs can better share the load and the brake can do its thing

I don't see a pulley.

 

[sotc]

Looks like they're adding more rope to the system, that's good, I'm trying to wrap my head around the advantage of that device in that scenario other than adding rope. You've got to let rope fly through your hands on the ground.

 

[RegC]

I think they are using two legs of rope to support the cut log however I would argue that the friction thimble thingy should be on the static tree and the pulley should be on the felled log so the 2 legs can better share the load and the brake can do its thing

Yeah I can see the intent Paul. But I just don't get why go to all that trouble in this situation. Id use the THT thing if I was rigging weak structure, to avoid the multiplying effect, but that's it really. If it's to maximize the strength of the rigging rope then it doesn't look like the THT has much of a bend radius for a complete U TURN on the rigging line....unlike a block. And it's tied off with a direct running bowline....which you'd probably want to avoid too.
You can't cinch up the THT the same as a block, nor draw the slack out as it folds. You might gain in some values, but giving others away. I like the x rings in general, but not what's going on in that photo so much.

I'm saying all this assuming that the top ropes are playing no part in an initial load share....because if they are too taking some of the impact then the set up seems even less worth the hassle. I was just curious to hear Brian take. I don't even know if that's him in the tree.

 

[cory]

Reg, that is Lawrence in the tree.

I have a product that I want to develop that would make any diesel engine Cali legal...... Just don't have the cash to do it

How bout a Go fund Me like was done for the Akimbo. Sounds like a lock!

 

[PCTREE]

Cory I couldn't deal with the stress of having a bunch of people waiting for me to deliver a product that I don't know for sure could be made to work. I pay for all my own R&D because I frig up on a few ideas......

 

[cory]

I hear ya. Maybe something to keep in mind if the product becomes more finished.

Nice to hear your creative juices remain strong.

 

[Bixler]

Careful Paul, we don't need the CARB guys kidnapping you in the middle of the night and then we never hear from you again...

The control line was 3/4" ran through the double beast (on an ultra sling), through the SafeBloc on the piece and tied off to the spar below the notch as you see in the photo. Adding friction (Safebloc) to the piece continues to distribute the force throughout the system, reducing force on the rigging spar, and more importantly in this case... it allowed me to control the speed of the piece as it left the cut with no lowering device.

The top rope was 5/8" rigging line set (by myself using Wraptor) at 100' in a Ponderosa Pine down the hillside, at this point in the job being the only groundie... I pre-tensioned the Yellow 5/8" rope using RC-31 Pulley and tied it off to a porty. The middle (white rope) is 1/2" 12 strand set natural crotch in the other portion of the oak tree with 3 full wraps on nearby tree. As Lawrence cut the piece I would run the Orange 3/4" line in tandem with the 1/2" white rope, hold, take pics, lower etc...

It didn't take Lawrence any noticeable extra time setting up the rigging. The ultra sling equipped with double beast is SO FAST. To untie, I could remove the timber-hitched Safebloc, then white rope, sometimes before the piece hit the ground (to avoid pinching against stuff)... land the piece, tie everything together and he pulled it all back up. Hope any of that helps Reg?

For a two man operation, cut and run job, it was a good way to run it.

 

[RegC]

So, the 3/4 line was not put through a lowering device at the bottom of the tree ? Instead you used all that other stuff to create friction ?

The other 2 tip lines took the majority of the initial impact ?

What is the bend radius of that THT on a 3/4 line, roughly ?

Thanks Brian.

 

[August Hunicke]

I've found the THT to be just what the doctor ordered on weak spars.
Found myself using it a few times when I didn't need it and was greatly relieved to take it out of the equation and go back to the good ole midline attachable block with it's pre-tensioning abilities and predictable resistance. Even the rings frustrate lifting enough to make me very thankful for blocks. Everything seems to have its time and place though.

 

[Bixler]

Yep, no lowering device at the base of the tree... the only other stuff used to create friction was the SafeBloc on the piece.

The other two tip lines took the weight of the piece as well as guide the piece clear of the home/deck into the desired DZ. The Orange line simply controlled the speed of the piece.

Not sure about the bend radius of the THT but it's not great with ropes smaller diameter than 5/8".

 

[RegC]

My point regarding bend ratio is that it doesn't look much more than 2:1 on a 3/4 line....so while you may create some friction up top, you're also loosing a lot of strength if you get into big wood. Be careful.

I'm not saying what you did was wrong....because it worked as you said. I just wouldn't have used such a complicated system just to slow down the speed of a swinging log. It appears like over thinking....but, you were there not me. Great job, I'm sure.

 

[RegC]

I see the doubled system page you just added. Yeah its all very logiCal in principle, and nothing new. But, it's based on a frictionless system as stated....not rigging rings and thimbles. And, for most situations is a complete waste of time and effort.

 

[Bixler]

Thanks Reg, it's tough to tell from the pics how noodley our Pine rigging point was (Yellow line) and how back leaning (and thus cautious to add weight to the back lean) our Oak rigging point was... thus we wanted to slowly introduce the log's weight while not putting a lot of force on the oak spar because of the unknown amount of rot.

I can understand the concern of the safebloc bend radius compromising the 3/4" rope's strength but it was not the primary load bearer and the double block rigging format helped by adding that extra rope into the system as well as friction.

 

[August Hunicke]

Jed, Here are those pictures of me in 1997 that I told you about in Snoqualmie Pass. Big leaf maple, hollow, adjacent to cabin/steep roof château type dwelling not pictured, tree leaned over septic if I remember right.
I just snapped pictures of these pictures hanging on the wall of my shop. Anyways, the pictures are one tree, in order from top to bottom. I was impressed with some of the big leaf maple's over there.
The homeowner was actually a ground man for the company I worked for out of Seattle. An older guy. I worked real cheap for him but I don't remember the exact cost.

 

[August Hunicke]

Sounds fun Brian, I wish I had made the trip.

 

[RegC]

I know you weren't loading the safe block to anything like what would damage or reduce the strength of the rigging line, as you explained already the situation. I was merely suggesting for future reference. Consider also that when you've removed an average sized canopy from a tree, it's highly unlikely the compression created on the trunk by negative rigging a few logs is going to be anything like the stress previously endured via wind loading throughout its life. It stands to reason. Standing dead trees are obviously a different animal. I've negative rigged more logs than I care to remember. I've even used 2 blocks and 2 lines at once for really heavy stuff, where they had to be stopped fast. But the extra hardware was always to prolong the life span of my ropes.....not because I thought the tree would collapse. It's good to try out new stuff Brian....but you were going great guns without. Worth remembering.

Did somebody text you that TCIA diagram ? They should just join in. We're just speculating after all....its not an argument of any kind.

 

[RopeArmour]

Just a guess but the same thing would be accomplished if the THT was slinged to the severed piece with the THT then routed to line anchored to the spar below the severing cut.
Basically vertical speedline with speed control by THT. Self lowering wood.
A second control line may be necessary

 

[RopeArmour]

How is the THT on not locking up when pinned or pinched against the spar?
No cheek plates. is there a good way to avoid that type of nuisance?

Self lowering wood idea is like SRT Less Rope To hang up

 

[Bixler]

Yep, I had Lawrence send me that diagram for the sake of the discussion/thread, figured it might help someone... He was trying to explain the setup to me while working that day and showed me the diagram, it helped me at the time. I've hinted enough times to get him to join but some people would rather just lurk I wonder what it is that FINALLY gets people to join, anyway...

I'm not a fan of negative rigging, I'd much rather opt for cutting firewood in the sky or using a crane...

Prolonging the life of rope is very important to me now, much more than before. I always figured you big riggin' fellows doubled up the system for added security Over prolonging the life of a rope.

I'm an ol' dog Reg, tough to teach me any new tricks. I'll stick with what works best for me, in this case it would likely be swinging smaller pieces without a control line... Might rough up a tree or two but that's what we're gonna get. Every time I work with Lawrence or other great climbers I slowly start to absorb various techniques I see and apply them to scenarios I come across in the future, always something to learn in this gig. Good stuff.

 

[sotc]

Wireless remote went down a year ago, finally got it back and installed, totally stoked!

 

[RegC]

Tell him to join. No big commitment. Just breeze in and out whenever. Some of the best content gets posted in this thread but you can't see it as a lurker.