Summer Limb Drop

[klimbinfool]

summer limb drop

 

[CurSedVoyce]

And there ya go!

 

[Paul B]

might have fallen off sudden but that looks like a lot of CODIT in there from times before.

 

[klimbinfool]

Some paul, but it didn't seem significant enough.

 

[Paul B]

fair enough, I wasnt there.

 

[stehansen]

Skwerl your high humidity may have something to do with your lack of summer limb drop. Low humidity makes for a lot more water transfer through the tree.

 

[TREECYCLE]

Great thread! Recently here in Seattle we have had a bit of a dry stretch. All over the city we have been cleaning up Elm branch failures. It happens with little if any breeze present and definitely had me scratching my head? From 6 to 2o inch branches or leads the attachment always appeared quite sound and free of defect. Would be quite a ride to tie into one of these before they went all the while thinking it was solid.

 

[pantheraba]

From 6 to 2o inch branches or leads the attachment always appeared quite sound and free of defect. Would be quite a ride to tie into one of these before they went all the while thinking it was solid.

Well, just damn....I have to say I hadn't thought of that aspect of it...not a good thought.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Something I think of every day when doing oaks in particular here Gary. Also why some would say I am paranoid with my TIP's <--- note the plural.

 

[klimbinfool]

I hear ya there although, my feeling is thats actually one of the most secure points in this game. It's verticle for the most part and not horizontal. I rarlely see the tops break out from Sudden drop.

Greg

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I agree with the tops, however, in some oaks a TIP on a vertical top is not always a possibility.. You definitely choose the most logically strong crotch as high as possible. But that is not necessarily available on some oaks. Valley and White are often the example of that situation in my neck of the woods that come to mind. CA Black Oaks also can lend to the shape of more horizontal than vertical. Correct me if this Noob (referring to myself) is wrong. I do find myself often on double crotch in many of the aforementioned oaks And not just for work positioning. Mostly, but not entirely....

 

[klimbinfool]

well, that could depend I suppose on area.I've climbed hundreds of Valley Oaks and yes your right about more than one TIP but I still find that what I'm tieing into is mostlt vertical even though the spar may somewhat be horizontal.

Black Oaks generally always have a decent TIP unless it's been crowded out by others which I do run into a lot. However , I trust black oak way more then a valley.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Exactly what I run into up here with the trees... All crowded. And I so know what you mean by trusting the Black Oaks more than the Valley..

 

[gf beranek]

The odds of being in a tree and having sudden limb drop happen is akin to being in a tree during an earthquake. Both of which I really wouldn't care to experience,,, but sooner or later someone is.

 

[klimbinfool]

lol...I hear ya Gerry. If i'm prunning or removing in a tree that has high probability and I know the odds like you mentioned, it's still all about, lets get some weight out of this puppy NOW! no standing around and site seeing...

 

[wiley_p]

The odds of being in a tree and having sudden limb drop happen is akin to being in a tree during an earthquake. Both of which I really wouldn't care to experience,,, but sooner or later someone is.

I was close Gerry. I was racing one of my climbers and we had both just gotten down when I'm looking at him trying to figure out why the hell he was going up and down 4-5' on the ground. It was the Nisqually quake. I shut the job down that day cause I did not trust any of the trees we had left after they had moved that much.

 

[treelooker]

might have fallen off sudden but that looks like a lot of CODIT in there from times before.

I agree there is a lot of rot inside there-NOT sudden limb drop. Overextended, heavy end uncorrected by pruning or cabling, strained an old defect. SLD usually leaves a stub--if it is a codom tearout that is a different beast.

paul you were not there but the pic showsa ton of rot inside dunnit?

 

[klimbinfool]

your positive ?

 

[Paul B]

'Looker, I wasnt there its true, I gave my thoughts based on the picture(s) posted. Wood in hand or in person I might have made the same or a different decision, I cant say for sure. It looked to me to be a fair bit of predisposed decay then the failure, was it a sudden limb drop/failure, I dont think so, but I live thousands of miles away from the event, that makes for a large margin of error due to lack of local education. If it happened close to me, I would argue a fair bit in my opinion.

 

[treesandsurf]

I wouldn't go with SLD on that one either Greg. Here's a quote from Harris et al.

"Branches that drop are usually more horizontal than vertical and extend to or beyond the edge of the tree crown. The break occurs most often out on a limb some distance from its attachment."

It also sounded like this branch failed in the evening? Hopefully more research gets published to determine the cause of SLD.

jp

 

[treelooker]

"The break occurs most often out on a limb some distance from its attachment."

Yes that is the pattern.

"Branches that drop are usually more horizontal than vertical and extend to or beyond the edge of the tree crown."

aka overextended, so it is identifiable and correctable, to some extent--sell pruning! Overextended limbs outside the crown are not good, duh! Tree owners gotta see that and deal with it, and tree pruners need to do more limb reduction, per need.

Removal of interior growth makes limbs overextended, so gutting/liontailing is a predisposing practice.

The only way for SLD to be better understood is for arborists to document it in the field. Good pics by klimbin of a decay/codom failure. Tree looks fecked; darn shame the owner did not manage the asset. :roll:

It also sounded like this branch failed in the evening? Hopefully more research gets published to determine the cause of SLD.

jp[/QUOTE]

 

[gf beranek]

I totally agree, more pics, more observations and notes. Morphology of the break, species, time, date, location, temperature,,,, and anything out of the ordinary. Detective work to find the common denominators.

 

[Paul B]

Document? Sure, thats easy, international tree failure database . Arent you all registered to report on failures yet? I have been to the annual get together twice but I cant seem to remember my username or password to the site.

 

[klimbinfool]

Ok , went back today and re-evaluated the tree before removing it and I must say Paul and Tree Looker(sorry I dont know your name) you are correct. Good eye from just the photo.

This limb was more horizontal than verticle. On the other hand, most not all SLD leave a stub as you mentioned. However, over the last eithteen years with dealing with SLD, I have seen many tear off at the trunk with no CODIT present.

Thanks Guys.

Greg

 

[MasterBlaster]

Toss the sucka!!!