Singing Tree Rope Runner

[Tim_B.]

Tim now that is an exciting revelation. Single rope x2. Who would have thunk it . He has developed this technique to complement his climbing style and the result is outstanding . Kudos to that lad. He moves so effortlessly it is inspiring

Yeah, Paul, it sure is. He is amazing. This is a level of outside-the-box thinking as an end user that I think rivals the leaps of imagination that both Kevin Bingham and yourself have had as the original inventors of your groundbreaking products. All three of you are artists, in my opinion.

Seeing this guy's technique really sells the heck out of the Rope Runner.

Thanks for your comments, Paul.

Tim

 

[gf beranek]

very interesting. I'd like to see a schematic of how he rigged that system. It appeared two different ways, but hard to make out in the vid. It's cool.

 

[treebilly]

Cool. Definately got it dialed in

 

[Tim_B.]

I would be surprised if Butch minded, he isn't dopey like that.

It looks like a fascinating tool!

I do very little SRT so Im a serious newbie/dinosaur. But, to ascend srt with the RR, do you only need it plus 2 foot ascenders? That would seem to be a very nice reduction in gear needed.

Hey, Cory! Thanks for chiming in! First, let me clarify that I do not yet own a Rope Runner. Also, as I've said earlier, this guy posting the videos, who calls himself Johnny Pro, has not as of yet answered any questions with regard to his technique other than by links to other videos or web pages.

In an attempt to answer your question about how much gear is required to climb with the Rope Runner, I went back and closely watched Johnny Pro's video entitled "Pizza and Beer", to see what I could see. Thanks for asking the question, as it forced me to pay better attention to the subtleties.

At 1:07 in this video, Johnny Pro appears to be using two Rope Runners during a descent, for some reason.

Starting at 1:30 in the video, it shows him setting up to use two foot ascenders plus the Rope Runner to climb.

I did not note the time in the video, but he also appears to have a swivel on his rope bridge.

At around 1:55 in the video, he appears to be ascending only a single line. I could not see details well enough, but my guess is that in that ascent he is using a rope walker setup that most likely consists of a foot ascender, a knee ascender and the Rope Runner. He does a clever job of editing the video to eliminate the section of time required to remove and stow the knee ascender and take the foot ascender off of the rope prior to starting his descent. In this manner, he makes it look like the transition from ascent to descent happened much more quickly than it probably did in real time.

At 2:28 or thereabouts, there's a closeup shot that clearly shows one Rope Runner in his hand, and a second Rope Runner hanging off the back of his saddle, or at least hanging off of a rope that is behind his back.

So, not ever having used a Rope Runner before myself, I don't know if it's an absolute necessity to own two of them in order to climb the way he does or not. He demonstrated for at least a few seconds, the ability to ascend using only two foot ascenders and a Rope Runner. I would guess that as with most things related to climbing, we each need to try things out "low and slow" at first, and see how well they work out for us. I just hope at some point, I get the chance to.

Tim

 

[cory]

Well cool, thanks for detailed response. It sounds like there is a lot of interesting stuff to learn and be worked out.

 

[Tim_B.]

You are most welcome, Cory.

Tim

 

[PCTREE]

Cory you should come out to "Jambo" next year and get to see a lot of this stuff in action. Ill even buy you a beer!!

 

[cory]

That would be awesome, I got to get up to speed.

 

[NHlocal]

Just in passing, has anyone here placed an order with Treestuff for one of these?

wcmccon asked:

"Just in passing, has anyone here placed an order with Treestuff for one of these?"

I have not, as of yet. I would love to, but I think I might have to hold off for a bit. One thing I would like to call up TreeStuff and ask them about with regard to this issue, is whether or not they are going to charge your credit card instantly in order to put your name on the pre-order list, or if they will wait to charge the credit card only when the Rope Runner actually ships.

I suspect that they'll charge the card now, and forward the money to Kevin Bingham, which will help him to pay for the materials he needs to make the Rope Runners in the first place. The pre-order process would allow Kevin to have a gauge for the actual demand for the product. Taking the payments in advance and forwarding the money to Kevin right away would allow him to avoid having to go deeply in debt, possibly, just to fund the first run of his product.

Also, if Kevin is doing his own manufacturing, which I suspect and hope he is doing, it keeps more of the profit for all of his hard work in his own hands, to help him grow his business, as opposed to having to cut in a third party manufacturer on the deal.

The more I write about this, the more willing I find myself getting to part with money I can't really afford to, in order to invest in a man who has given us all so much. I would love to hear Nick Bonner chime in on the background details of the money transaction. I think if everyone knew that the money was being forwarded to Kevin Bingham right away in order to fund his first big run, plenty of people would jump on board in order to give Kevin's business the big push it deserves.

Until I make the phone call, I won't know for sure.

The Rope Runners won't ship until March 1st, 2015, according to TreeStuff's web page.

Tim

Tim,

I just "found" this thread. I have (pre) ordered a Rope Runner. That Kevin Bingham guy is really pushing the progression of tree climbing, and I'm very grateful for that, thanks Kevin for pursuing and continuing to pursue the obvious passion you have for tree climbing.

Nick could give you the details, but I do know that with my pre-order I have been charged the "cost" of the Rope Runner.
If I'm not mistaken CMI is the company that is actually producing the Rope Runner now.
I hope the Singing Tree emblem is still going to be on them.....Kevin will they have the Singing Tree emblem???
I sure hope so.....

Tim, thanks for posting up the link to that video, that's a very interesting use of the rope runner.

Looking forward to more updates.....I'll definitely post when I get mine and climb on it.

 

[Tim_B.]

Randy, thanks for telling me how your transaction was handled, much appreciated. Thanks also for the information about CMI possibly being the manufacturer of the Rope Runner. I own one of their foot ascenders. Other than the foot strap giving out, the hardware is really beefy, so I think they'd do a nice job on the Rope Runner if they've got the contract. I think all of their stuff is manufactured in their own facility here in the U.S., in West Virginia, I believe.

You're welcome for the link to Johnny Pro's Rope Runner video. Pretty spectacular stuff. Congratulations on your purchase of the Rope Runner. Pretty much everyone that I've read that has one is in love with it. I downloaded the owner's manual for the Rope Runner from somewhere (can't find the link now, of course).

The one thing it seems like Kevin Bingham is worried about with the Rope Runner is the axle spring near the top of the device. You need to watch it like a hawk, because I get the impression that the Rope Runner can fail if the spring breaks. If I ever get a Rope Runner, one of the first things I think I'd do is to attempt to remove the spring and see how the Rope Runner acts while it is on the rope, on the ground. I would want to know if there is a way to make the Rope Runner work with a broken or missing spring, or if it is just a complete failure mode. If it turns out to be a complete failure mode if the spring breaks, I'd would want to keep spares around and replace them at a comfortable interval in order to try to prevent ever having a spring failure. I might also want to find a way to have a backup that is not intrusive.

Congratulations, again, on your purchase. I know you'll have a ball with it.

Tim

 

[NHlocal]

Tim,
I don't think I have to say anything other than TreeStuff is awesome. They have gone way above and beyond for me, can't say enough good about 'em.
I've talked with Lawrence a couple times about his Rope Runner, he can't say enough good about it. I am very much looking forward to getting it and trying it on some challenging trees.
I'm learning as I go with it, as far as hearing about the "spring thing"..... curious to get my hands on mine and take a close look, just like you said. I wanna know ALL about the gear I'm hanging my life on.

Thanks Tim.....

.....Randy

 

[GemCutter]

Without the spring the RR will not normally grab the rope on it's own. It will still grab if you bump up the bird (top arm) just like setting a hitch. Once set, you can hang and descend normally.

Here's a demonstration by Yoyoman...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z2IYTDchTM

 

[NHlocal]

OK, that makes sense to me. Also gives me more insight on how the device actually functions.

Thanks GemCutter.

 

[Tim_B.]

Yeah, thanks from me, too, GemCutter. That video perfectly answers my question. Big thanks go out to yoyoman, too, for producing the video. Nice job!

Tim

 

[Oldmilltreecare]

So your life is entirely reliant on one little spring! That can't be safe.
Little twigs, bits of saw dust, leaf could easily drop into the spring and compromise its functionality, therefore rendering the device useless.
Surely I'm wrong but that's how it looks to me.

 

[GemCutter]

Your life is dependent on you doing your part and making sure the device grabs just as with a hitch (which sometimes fail to grab and have to be nudged).

The RR has been in use for a few(?) years now and I haven't heard of a spring failure. The spring is under very low stress and very unlikely to fail. Similar to the spring in a Pantin or CT foot ascender. Not one of my concerns at all.

 

[Tim_B.]

Also, the very thing that yoyoman proved with his video is that it can be used safely with no spring present on the device at all. You just have to tend it the way the original Rope Wrench with a floppy tether needed to be tended. This suggests to me that the mode of operation that yoyoman outlined in the video is the way to do things if you want an absolute assurance of safety.

I do not yet own a Rope Runner, but I suspect most that do feel as though the device is really reliable. Making sure that it engages before putting all of your weight on it exclusively would be good practice, just as GemCutter says. Having said all of that, however, I do wonder if Kevin has a replacement interval in mind for the spring.

Tim

 

[PCTREE]

I don't know for a fact but I would wager the cycles to failure of that spring is in the millions. The spring failing is not a concern however having the spring unclipped by debris would be. Kevin was ever so generous and gave me a Runner. I climbed on it a few times and it worked well. However in my warped mind I now feel that to some degree we are all gini pigs (sp?). Since I have been trying to make ariel devices there is always the first idea and you make a horribly weak and crude proof of concept, made out of anything just to see if the idea has merit. Then if it does you make another half assed one but make it so it could actually hold you weight so you can try it for real on a rope. Then you make another one. Repeat until you have something you can trust to climb on. Shoot first time I worked a tree on a HH I was scared shitless about what I "had missed" . after you've been on one for a while you send some out to trusted testers to get feed back. For me after about a year you go to market if you and your testers feel it is worth it. Trust me MOST of my ideas don't make it. Any way when we and when I say "we" meaning anybody that sells ariel gear goes to market they have been thoroughly teated. However as Petzl has just show with the zigzag you cant test for ALL scenarios. So for all of us guys it is very nerve racking as literally peoples lives are dependent on your design.

Any way after a tangent I now climb on my own gear trying to find problems before anybody else does. When I read this tomorrow sober Im sure none of this will make any sense...

 

[Tim_B.]

Thanks for posting your opinion, Paul. It all made perfect sense. I appreciate hearing your specific thoughts about the spring on the Rope Runner. It's nice to know that you consider it to be so robust.

Tim

 

[PCTREE]

I have spoken a few times with Kevin and he is a very intelligent and responsible guy. If he decided it was ready for market I trust his judgement as I can guarantee you nobody has spent as much time on a runner as him, as he will continue to do to try to perfect an already awesome product.

 

[Oldmilltreecare]

I have spoken a few times with Kevin and he is a very intelligent and responsible guy. If he decided it was ready for market I trust his judgement as I can guarantee you nobody has spent as much time on a runner as him, as he will continue to do to try to perfect an already awesome product.

Thanks everyone.
I feel a bit silly now, posting concerns about the spring. It was a momentary observation and I should have given it more thought.
However, I guess it's good for everyone to read the intelligent and considered replies.
Apologies to everyone involved in the RR, I didn't mean to 'scare monger' or anything like that.

 

[PCTREE]

Nobody should ever feel silly for having concerns with any part of their life support system, this is what keeps us safe. Can somebody post a close up picture of the spring mounting system??

 

[GemCutter]

 

[biggun]

Well I have one of these on preorder. Looking forward to receiving it and running it head to head with the bulldog bone.

 

[Tim_B.]

Now that will be a really cool comparison to read about! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these two items, like the old "compare and contrast" essays we had to write in high school. Thanks for posting!

Tim