SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
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- #26
I mighta been on the right track from the beginning, PI and HTP.
Rope recommendation for SRT with Hitch Hiker
- Thread starter SouthSoundTree
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Adam_P
TreeHouse WebMaster
Yea, PI, blue moon, and the luna at treestuff are all the same rope. Rope branding really muddies the waters.
wiley_p
Climbing Up
Sean, in testing that I have been doing over the last year I have come to the decision that a Screamer needs to be used in our canopy entry systems on fixed line. The ideal spot is on the climber, but it adds length to the system (may have a great work around in the near future) Next choice is on the basal end of the tie off. With ALL of our climblines we don't want to go over a practical fall factor of .5, sounds easy but it is a lot harder to achieve. In our conifers we have a fair chance of getting a 6-7' drop on ascent due to a variety of conditions.
PCTREE
Treehouser
Fwiw this is why Wraptor rope is so stretchy. We dropped 225 pounds 20 feet in testing and a ground tied line set at about 50 feet was absorbed with no problems. Early on in the R&D phase I thought about incorporating a screamer but it wasn't necessary
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
Thanks, Dave.
Seems like a good measure of protection. Better overkill than underkill.
Seems like a good measure of protection. Better overkill than underkill.
PCTREE
Treehouser
Burnham, Im kinda surprised you are using Ultratech with the HH. Wasnt it you who was talking about how a polyester rope can melt when descending fast and become self lubricating??? Im obviously aware that the HH will reduce the heat build up of the cordage but still wonder??
Input anybody??
Input anybody??
chris_girard
Treehouser
BY FAR, the best hitch cord to use with the HH is All Gears 5/16" TVP hollow braid cord, stuffed inside with a small 1/4" nylon filler to keep it round and beef the size up a little.
This is the stuff that Paul was first using, but as he and I both found out, you can go through a hitch cord pretty darn quit, around 2 weeks. Still, when it's first broken in and running right, there's nothing like it.
This is the stuff that Paul was first using, but as he and I both found out, you can go through a hitch cord pretty darn quit, around 2 weeks. Still, when it's first broken in and running right, there's nothing like it.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Anybody using tennex with the HH? Just asking.
Dave, fall factor calculations can be a pretty unreliable with the wide variety of ropes used in our work environment. What is the maximum impact force you are shooting for?
David
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
A fall factor of .5 , I dont see how you even get that high. That means you are FREEFALLING 10' with only 20' of line in the system.
Lets look at a canopy tie, or cinched tie off in SRT. Tie in is at 50'... if you ascend to 45' safety in, and introduce 5' of slack into the system and then jump off you would fall 5' on 10' of rope = Factor .5
Other than being right up at your tie in, its gonna be almost impossible to achieve a fall factor of .5 or higher. With a base tie, IMO, unless you purposely try and hit the highest fall factor possible, you wont get anywhere close to that.
A 6-7' drop in a conifer, I agree that seems possible if not likely in day to day production climbing with a base tie. Less likely in DRT. To hit a 7' fall you only need to break a sucker 3.5' above a bigger (holding) crotch with a base tie. The climber will fall 3.5 ' for each leg of the rope above the crotch that catches the rope. I maintain though, that in any scenario where your rope would be over something that small (a HIGH tip that you cant see or isolate appropriately) there will so much rope in the downward leg of a base tie that a .5 fall factor is impossible.
IF you are climbing DRT and get to a point where you can see that your rope is on a sucker thats gonna break 3-4' above a major crotch, my recommendation would be to lanyard in and make some changes, not continue to climb towards it and take more rope out of the system.
In truth I doubt most tree climbers have taken a .5 factor fall ever, cause it hurts and it isnt something you forget, even on super dynamic rock rope and it usually involves decking.
I dont even know that we should be translating fall factor into arborist climbing. The biggest risk to our climbing systems isnt SRT, DRT, or any of that; it is OSHA 1926 and the like. Our systems, and techniques are in a gray area and are kept there by our insistence that we use work positioning, not fall protection. IMO as SOON as you open the door for a possibility of a fall, than fall protection can be mandated. NONE of our equipment, techniques or regulation are equipped for that.
It would be disastrous.
Sean, when looking at rope elongation don't look at just the 10% mbs . Even though Vortex with its typical double braid construction is rated at 3% at abs, it has only 1.4% at 540 lbs., due to its higher abs (8,800 lbs), giving it a more static feel when loaded and worked with in a smooth manner. So you get the static feel, better/greater hitch modulation range, soft fat comfortable gripping, great knot holding characteristics and a rope that is capable of absorbing a large amount of impact force in the event of a fall unlike some of the other choices.
David
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Im gonna try a hank of Vortex here real soon....
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Dave and I both sound like broken records... lol.
Burnham
Woods walker
Ultratech is not just polyester, of course. And the HH system is far less suseptible to runaway raps than the Rope Wrench, which was my area of concern.
I'm actually sticking with the Beeline for the most part, Paul. But Ultratech worked well when I tried it for a little bit, as did HRC.
PCTREE
Treehouser
B isn't the jacket polyester though?? That was my impression from Samsons site but not 100% on that. Given it has an aramid core but who gives a hoot as you go into virtual free fall due to a melting jacket. Everybody remember yhe HH just amplifies the hitchs grab so no grab from hitch= zero grab.
Flushcut, this would be why I wouldnt climb on tenex either even though I used it for Ddrt for years.
Flushcut, this would be why I wouldnt climb on tenex either even though I used it for Ddrt for years.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
flushcut
TreeHouser
I use tennex for DRT, I was just wondering if it has been used with the HH not that I was going to use it.
PCTREE
Treehouser
I played around with a piece this evening and it worked well. I might just for grins do a really long , fast descent with it whilst backed up with a second belay line to see if it does melt.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Video would be cool. I think it would melt like a stick of butter.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
No way. Im not saying its not a risk, or that it CANT happen, but you never read about people melting their hitch and going into freefall.
Burnham
Woods walker
Yes, you are correct Paul. Fair point.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
When I was climbing DRT with a VT I was using polyester cord almost the whole time. Sure, I might glaze it on a quick burn out of the tree, but never had it lose grip and go into a freefall. I always felt it had superior performance to any of the high tech cords, just had to replace it more often.
It would be interesting to see how things work with an SRWP system like the HH. When I was much younger and not buying my own ropes, I several times melted the chit out of ropes while using a tail-tied hitch on a double braid rope, to the point that the knot totally fused after stopping. Never felt out of control but that was DdRT.
David
Interesting incident on El Capitan involving an out-of-control rappel is mentioned on pg. 189 of Smith and Padgett's classic book "On Rope": "He did not survive. The bars of his rack had gobs of melted nylon the size of oranges plastered to them..(It is believed he entered into a nylon-lubricated slide down his rope)"
Burnham
Woods walker
Noted...oh, about 20 years ago give or take. Bad cases from the caver community as well. Enough to make me pay attention, as a rope technician.
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