Reiteration and water sprouts

[Joezilla11]

Can someone explain to me the difference of the two? Reiteration is a new term to me and I came across the topic on another forum so I started looking into it and here's an article I found http://treephys.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/3/455.full.pdf.

I frequently drive by these trees so I went and snapped a few pics as an example

 

[Szajer]

Firstly, what is that? Looks like an over grown Bradford pear Norway maple cross.

 

[Joezilla11]

I think they are Bradford pears there are a few that are worse but that's what I snapped real quick

 

[Szajer]

Well, though I'm certain there is scientific study that will explain how it happens, I will say that genetically- this is common for that species.

Are you suggesting that this was done to that particular tree naturally? Physically? Or was the tree an example you were aware had this particular.

 

[Joezilla11]

I was just using them as an example. I was looking for some explanation of reiteration. I understand "water sprout" and "suckers" are terms used to describe epicormic growth but from the article I read it sounds like the same thing. The posts I read on the buzz suggest that reiteration and watersprouts are not the same.

 

[ClimbMIT]

From what I understand "waters sprouts" are what grows inside the canopy. Certain species are more prone to them especially when pruned during the growing season. "Suckers" grow along the bottom of the trunk on certain species regardless of pruning or/and when pruned during the growing season. Heavy pruning will often cause many water sprouts. What is reiteration? Is there a separate arboricultural term for it?

 

[Joezilla11]

Here's the definition of reiteration cut and pasted from the link in my first post:


Reiteration is the process whereby architectural units are repli- cated within a tree (Hallé et al. 197. There are two basic types of reiteration: immediate or sylleptic reiteration (nomen- clature after Bégin and Filion 1999), which occurs from se- quential growth of an apical bud, and delayed or proleptic reit- eration, which occurs from suppressed or adventitious buds. Reiteration often occurs in response to some trauma such as defoliation or damage to the apical bud (Bryan and Lanner 1981, Del Tredici 2001) or pruning. Delayed reiteration in the form of epicormic sprouting is well documented in many spe- cies of angiosperms (Wignall et al. 1987, Bellingham 2000, Del Tredici 2001).

 

[Adam_P]

Well, that paragraph is a little heavy for me. I'm still not really clear what the difference is. Is it just saying that water sprouts are an example of reiteration?

I wish they'd just write this stuff so two regular people could have a discussion about it.

 

[ClimbMIT]

Uh yeh, that's what I thought too Adam

 

[Joezilla11]

Lol that's definitely not my usual reading. I'll admit I had to re-read and look some words up

 

[Szajer]

I wish they'd just write this stuff so two regular people could have a discussion about it.

Tell me about it.

I'm not really seeing a difference between them. Both happen -either directly or indirectly, due to a stressor caused upon the tree. Even by correctly opening a canopy to allow more sunlight -will cause reiteration. (Which simply means "repeat excessively")

One would think they would simply say this. Maybe the thesis author has an affinity for Rube Goldberg.

 

[treelooker]

watersprouts are slender, sparsely branched near the base or not at all, often internodal, grow wildly, and lacking a flare. Yes this all suggests they did not arise from latent buds.

Reiterations arise from nodes and are shaped like mini-adult trees and grow gradually. Reiteration is any shoot that repeats the basic form of the tree.
Like new stems arising from stumps, reiterations in the crown are
often extremely vigorous, so they make logical targets to cut a branch
back to. ...Smaller cuts further
outward may be difficult to make perfectly without an aerial
lift, but it may be better for the tree to have an imperfect smaller
wound than a more precise larger wound.

View attachment restore_2010_06.pdfView attachment restore_2010_06.pdf

 

[gf beranek]

Technical descriptions aside. In casual conversation the two terms are often used synonymously. Some people will argue the point, but just so long as you understand what happens, I think, is all you really need to know. It's kind of like the chicken and the egg paradox. No one can say for sure which one came first, but we do know how they work.

 

[Joezilla11]

Thanks Gerry u have a good point and having that understanding will suffice for now!
Treelooker thanks for explaining that and the article

 

[Szajer]

.

Thank-you sir. Informative....

 

[treelooker]

Technical descriptions aside. In casual conversation the two terms are often used synonymously. Some people will argue the point, but just so long as you understand what happens, I think, is all you really need to know. It's kind of like the chicken and the egg paradox. No one can say for sure which one came first, but we do know how they work.

Dude, I don't know about redwoods so much, but on angiosperms it is like
night
and
day
different.

 

[Szajer]

I guess I can add this to the 'what I learned today thread.'

Thanks again TL!

 

[treelooker]

Are these watersprouts?

I don't think so. the article's free. You get what you pay for, at least...

 

[gf beranek]

Conifers respond the same way. The redwood being one big exception, of course. With the ability to regenerate from both latent buds and adventitious woody tissue it sets a whole different standard compared to most other conifers, which most do not sprout from bare stems. The redwood is a lot like many hardwoods in the way it responds to being cut. A hearty tree for sure.

 

[Jomo]

Seems like Canary Island pines, or Pinus canariensis has those same rare characteristics Jerry.

Triggering water sprout growth in a tree after I'd pruned it to class one standards was always a sure sign I'd pruned too much out.

That trigger point varies widely depending on species and our familiarity with their characteristics.

Considering that putting off suckers is one of the last dying moves of so many species?

It's a relatively safe assumption that triggering it probably ain't a good thing, IMO.

Jomo

 

[treelooker]

3 different phenomena:

'Suckers' come from root tissue. Watersprouts are weak and internodal and lack a flare.

"Sprouts are our friend." Dr. Ed Gilman said this at least 6 times at Penn-Del last week.

Confusing the terms confuses the brain.

 

[Jomo]

That ought to make all hat rackers just pleased pink with themselves.

Guaranteed repeat bidness!

Are any of the three better attached than the primary growth you advocate over pruning to initiate sucker/sprout friends growth?

Jomo

 

[treelooker]

yadayadayada

 

[Jomo]

Is it safe to assume you prefer reduction pruning over old fashioned class one pruning that does not reduce the tree's canopy Guy?

Essentially your preferred pruning style's kinda like a storm movin through the tree, reducing its size, letting the light in, stimulating new sprout growth.

One of the cheesier companies here locally's called Knock Em Out, indiscriminate hackers of any tree.

Always thought Knock Em Back was a more accurate term for their particular pruning method. But there again many of their prunes do indeed die not long after receiving such tree care.

Is there even a market anymore for class one pruning in your opinion Guy?

Jomo

 

[Joezilla11]

So am I correct in saying that this is reiteration and not a watersprout? Does topping or heading apply to reiterations since they take on the form of a tree?