One Man Band- climbing and rigging, groundwork, business mgmt.

I've worked alone a bit. When I have to make a particularly dicey cut (throwing a top or cutting a biggish limb that I rigged for lowering, I have called my son and had him on line during the process...a headset helps with that.

In no headset days I always called first, said "I am here at..... , doing this cut...and I'll call right back after all is well."
 
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  • #27
I often have voice dial in my head set.

Mostly the HO is home and/ or the neighbor. Whistles are legally mandated for falling trees, I'm told.

I have used a call-in. The idea of having to do something dicey, alone, is not part of the plan. I can see the idea of a call/ call-right-back system, or keeping on the phone.

Formal training is a frequently neglected, Legal Obligation. Like many of you, I can tell industrial accident sorry after industrial accident story.

Training is to increase professionalism, production,and safety, and help with loss prevention, lower stress , etc.

a training manual, for knots, as an example, has pictures and resources for learning their skill set. I can't climb down every time a knot has to be tied. Train'em at "teachable" moments, which they can practice during down time, like if I have to talk to the HO or neighbor. (P.s. www animated knots.com). What to do if you unexpectedly need the POW hung, and your groundie is only a brush dragging monkey?

Driving has got to be the biggest daily risk. One unsecured ladder, or losing a trailer could be an easy deadly pile-up on the highway. Once when exhausted, a long time ago, I forgot to secure an extension ladder. It slid off, going 60mph, on the highway, at night. Luckily, it slid onto the shoulder of the road.

A woman lost her face here a few years back when some wood came off a truck on the highway. Unsecured Load enforcement went way up. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/41960037.html?mobile=y this is one of many stories of its kind.


A training manual for chipping backs up the job safety meeting. I have better things to do than check air pressure, oil levels, touch-up blades, etc. I need an employee to do it, and do it right. Pre-trip inspection of vehicles is likewise something I want to train on and delegate.

A lot of people (most actually) will learn better with eyes on pictures and written words, in addition to hands-on and oral instruction.



Top-side friction, with the climber lowering basic stuff, increases productivity. Some of the same techniques are applicable with a groundie or two, another climber working another tree onsite, or no other employees. Obviously, I'm not negative blocking huge logs, and if that were the option as most productive, a groundie come in.


One thing that has been rang true to me is that I don't want to be 'lost' when someone is sick, injured, quits or most of all need to be fired. I waited too long to fire Erik, in part because I didn't have a guy trained up, and hiring anyone with good experience is a needle in a haystack. I would love to be able to his someone with good skills and experience.


Continue on with the feedback, more about how to be self-sufficient as a climber, as needed, that work alone versus not working alone. I generally take the approach that without a trained rescuer onsite, I'm on my own anyway. No ladder truck will reach many of the places I work.

That kiddo next to me in my avatar is part of the safety net, as in not taking questionable- outcome take with a hope and prayer.
 
Sean re. Your difficulty getting decent help.
It just seems to me (looking from the outside) that you tend towards over complicating the whole thing, all this training manual and giving the guy training goals and all that. If you were a multinational I could understand it, but a one gang outfit it's too much imo. The way you describe how you "laid out to him" personally that would get my back up, its easy to forget, he's interviewing you as well, judging if he wants to work for this guy.
Why not just start by getting him to drag and cut and see how you get along? After a few weeks, months whatever if it's working out you can do all the personal goal stuff.

I 100% agree, Mick. But perhaps Sean has tried it the more basic way you describe too many times and it didn't work well that way. Perhaps he has had too many idiots to try it the basic way so he's trying it the regimented way. Imo, though, it does sound he is going to end up with employees he doesn't like and has no respect for because they can't think for themselves. Imo, you want people that can think for themselves and then you all work together toward the same goal. When you are working with dopes, you have to go regimented but working with dopes won't work, long term. You have to go thru 50-100 people before you can find the right person who has it together mentally and physically.
 
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  • #29
Thanks for the feedback Cory.

Is not a matter of don't think for yourself, it's plan the work, work the plan. If you don't know the plan, how can you work it safely.

Aren't CDLs hard core regimented licenses? Pre-trip inspection, stopping distances, gauge checks/mirror checks, sounding a horn before backing up, etc as part of the testing, and expectations of operation of a commercial motor vehicle.

There is no certified groundie testing. The certified tree worker, aerial lift op, etc is training because of too many accidents.

In two companies locally, one guy almost cut off his thumb, one guy's flip line came off the spar, they rolled a truck resulting in one guy's facial paralysis. I had to stop the thumb guy from pushing stuff into the chipper with his feet while nursing his thumb, because he hasn't been trained. I attached the company owner almost fall a long way at a local tree climbing competition.

When working for SP, my co -worker was very safety-conscious and experienced. I didn't need to watch his back, because he knew how. I did watch his back, and vice versa because it was the sensible thing and our jobs. We did mad, dangerous stuff all the time, as the nature of the work. Experience and trained safety protocols kept us alive, unlike the guy frying on the lines in Olympia, a bit before I moved here. I Heard the other guys working ditched out.

Customers often comment on how we appear compared to some of the competition, which wins back business some times when they went low bid and shitshow ensued. One recent job was a repeat customer, he ended up with tweaker cardiac arrest in his driveway, not knowing what happened to the guy, ultimately.

Playing up training of the groundie helps me get more satisfied hourly-rate pruning customers. It would never fly if I have an untrained groundie.
 
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  • #30
I straight up told him that a lot of guys want to reinvent the wheel and don't want to follow into a safety culture and learn good skills. I don't want to waste my time, and have to work with an incompetent guy. An extra dragger to supplement a trained groundie is different than only having an incompetent guy.

I told him while having an in person interview that it's for my safety, his safety, productivity, and his professional development. I can get a careless, untrained grunt anytime I want. I have a steel and hydraulic Ogre that can outwork anybody. The more skilled they are, the less work they do. A person who can quickly and effectively work the ground for a speed line to the chipper ends up dragging less. If we can rig out a big piece, and then use "right pedal power" to move it, he doesn't end up hauling a bunch of little stuff by hand.

How do you all train your crews so they don't wreck stuff, have accidents, lose stuff, etc? I feel like the manual is setting expectations, and delegating some of the training work to pieces of paper, so I can do other things. HOW TO BE AN EXCELLENT GROUNDMAN is a part of the manual.

It seems like the more a groundie is a grunt, the more problems they will have with substance abuse, court involvement, unreliable transportation to get to work, theft, etc.

I would love to have a trained, self-sufficient, well-paid groundworker who can think for him/her self, and work within the team. That leaves a lot more opportunity for less stress, and more joking around.
 
I've lost count of the "helpers" over the years, I can be a right bastard at times but you have to accept people's limitatations, not every youngster "wants to be like you"
Some just want to get through the day collect the money and go home. If you're paying minimum (or near to) you can't complain.
How do I train them? show them how to do it, then correct them if they do it wrong.
 
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  • #32
Minimum wage here is around $10/ hour. They start at $15 with room to grow. I used to throw Erik a hundred dollar bill before he took one of his mini-vacations. Christmas bonus if they were around a while. Help 'em fix their car, or loan then a rig while they're getting their car worked on. I told Erik is walk him through the certified arborist certification, and pay for it, and pay him $2 more per hour, and help with CEUs.

I want someone who wants to do tree work, not just work for a paycheck.


Thanks for the input. I'm trying to pick the collective brains.
 
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  • #33
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Some (hijacked) training materials.
 
Tree work is, for the most part, easy to do and easy to teach, especially with communication head sets. But the build is only as good as the foundation. A tree worker needs both physical and mental aptitude and a willingness to not only work but learn. They are out there. Most of us on this forum were that guy once.

I say spend more time looking for the right person and not worry so much about their level of experience.

As far as working by yourself, the golden rule is especially true, if you are not 100% sure, take a smaller piece.
 
No one man jobs. My partner and I do everything together. I pay him $25/hr. If that means I pay $200 or more for the day so be it. If I'm working a full day then I'm most likely bringing in at very least $1200 for 2 of us and $1500 for 3 minimum.
I'd rather have someone around. It makes everything easier and more interesting. As far as finding good workers it's tough. But I look for people that can learn not necessarily people that have "experience ". I pay well from the start so that there is never a excuse to slack. You won't last long here if you don't work hard. We have a great time working even when the work is shit, and in the long run I'm not getting as beat up.
 
Great thread guys.

Rigging by yourself is such a pain in the ass. It's twice the effort for half the gain. I end up doing it as often as not. Double whipping branches down using slide line slings, or hang and chop. Making crash pads and pulling things over with my truck. It's so nice to have someone to run a Portawrap and give you whatever you forgot.

No/few target stuff is a blast alone. No cleanup even better. 8)
 
I rarely work alone just for safety reasons. Simple jobs, fruit trees, hey no problem doing that alone. But when I am doing a removal, if it includes clean up, if there is rigging involved, I want a groundy.
If a HO has an issue with the cost of me having a groundy, I simply explain to them that it is a safety issue. I simply don't see a customer climb a tree to rescue me should something go wrong. I always set up for self rescue. But that is a huge selling point to the customer. One of the reasons they are hiring a professional is because the he/she is simply doing that. You know best how to do the job and how to do the job safely. You would also know best how to do it efficiently within their bid. You are the expert.
Now if they don't want to hire an expert, that's ok. They can go hire some other dude with a saw that can do it by himself cheaper with out a shirt on and some pot hole scars from meth. It's ok.. I'm booked already with people that want to spend their money smartly, and repeat doing so with me when it is necessary in the future. Called smart money. They'll probably still have some in the future.
Training is wonderful. I train one day or job at a time. Nichelle hung the porty a couple times up side down.. She also rehung the porty right side up before I went up the tree. I involve myself in the set up of the job. Do they always gas and warm up my saws? Nichelle most the time. Rob pretty much has to be told every time.
As the team leader, you are the manager. As has been said, different people have different skill sets, attention levels and levels of situational awareness and powers of observation. As a manager, you should be able to pull on what skills a team has and delegate each team on each job to handle it as efficiently as the team is capable of. Some people are not "manageable". These are very short in their term of employment.
Today my saw was gassed, tomorrow maybe not. Today He remembered PPE, tomorrow I will have to remind him.
How I handle my reminding .. that is on me.. I am just the manager making the machine stay oiled as best I can.
One water line got broken last week. All fixed.
 
Lunch time is client time, I politely ask the client for a coffee as we are having lunch. Then, as they bring it out to the yard it's a great time to engage with them and find out if it's what they're expecting. That way we have a lot less complaints as were getting a feel for the customer throughout the job process. We don't always talk trees with the client either, just...........chat with them and make sure they're on your side.
So lunch isn't a break as were still working, the art is not letting the client realise that;)
 
When I'm having my lunch it's my time, clients can piss off.
I want to relax, not answer inane questions or worse get off my arse to look at some little extra they want doing.
 
:lol:this made me laugh, I must admit I do get bored at lunch and can't really just sit and relax and do nothing. If I'm not chatting to clients I'll be sharpening saws or changing chipper blades. The other lads says it makes them feel bad for having a break when I'm working but I just can't sit still for that long.
 
When we stop, we stop. No one can work, otherwise it ruins the break for everyone. Sometimes I take the dog for a walk.
For me it's important amongst the roar of the chippers, chainsaws and cursing to have an oasis of calm and silence even for just 30 mins, mind you I am twice your age!
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to make people uneasy, and the young guys don't sit and chat on their break, just sit on they're phones in silence. I'd just rather be doing something productive and to me, sharpening, changing blades or chatting is a break.
I think it's great you can break like that, shows you have the ability to shut off when you need to.
 
PPPPPP.

Let them know you will be down in 15 minutes. Get down to a fresh cup o' Joe.

Jobs a good 'un!

If they offer scotch eggs then you know your into a good customer!
 
Sean, I solo if the job is small enough.
But I always make sure Richard, my partner, knows the exact adress and give him a call back time.
If he hasn't heard from me by then, he'll make a run out.
We do the same thing when we work solo in the woods.
Call in at 10.00, 12.00, 14.00 hours and job's end. More than 15 minutes late and it is rescue time.

We've never had to use it for real, but a few years back, I had a day off and Richard was logging big trees.
I didn't hear from him at 10.00 and couldn't reach him, so I raced for the woods.
It is only a 10 minute drive from my home, but even in that time I had a lot of nasty scenarios playing out in my head. Most of all how I'd have to break the news to his wife and kids.
Turned out he had been called out to an emergency job and sent me an SMS with the details.
For some reason the SMS didn't tick in on my phone till next day.

So we changed procedure, from then on we always call and talk directly to each other.

About 15 years back, I got my right foot caucht between two logs while logging alone in winter.
-15 centigrades and high wind and no cell phone coverage back then.We used a walkie talkie system, but that was in the truck.
It was a comfort to know that I'd only have to wait 1½ hours to be rescued. I had figured that I could call the 3 dogs out of the truck bed and huddle with them for warmth.
Eventually I managed to dig myself loose, but there was never that sense of " Oh my god, I'm going to die alone in the woods" panic.

So, at least, set up a call in system with someone you trust.
'
Really great idea and plan, Stig. Thanks for posting this. Someone close to me would call that "Lost comm" instructions.
As in lost communication. It can work when the family goes out to some big, crowded, public place, too. As in, If we get separated, we are to meet up on the hour, by this big obvious landmark, etc.

It helps to keep folks from panicking upon being accidently separated from each other.

Tim
 
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  • #48
P.S. The idea is not to bid it cheap, so as to get the job, its to have tricks to be more efficient, with or without a groundie.

I'd guess that I self-lower 80% of my rigging. My work in my market is rarely rigging logs. Sometimes.

This good-sized doug-fir that I just finished could have been all self-rigged, and lowered, but definitely needed a groundie to untie, and move out of the dropzone. There was a wire and light beneath. Biggest piece was probably under 250 pounds. The tree's top and logs were free-fallen onto brush pads.

The less I sit in the tree waiting, frequently watching the groundie struggle to lower and land a piece, the more efficiently the operate can go.

I'm on the look out for another BMS Belay Spool. A cheap, good tool for lowering with top-side friction.
 
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  • #49
Put an In Case of Emergency, call X,Y, Z on your dashboard. Let the homeowner know where it is.
 
I've worked alone a bit. When I have to make a particularly dicey cut (throwing a top or cutting a biggish limb that I rigged for lowering, I have called my son and had him on line during the process...a headset helps with that.

In no headset days I always called first, said "I am here at..... , doing this cut...and I'll call right back after all is well."

Very nice. Prudent measures to ensure safety, and which will hopefully never require an emergency response. I'm certain your son loves you to death, and I'm betting that it helps him to worry less about you to know that you care about safety so much, and take such precautions.

Tim
 
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