Mini's vs. full size Skid steers.

[sawinredneck]

The mini's are nice for small operations, and save a lot of back work. Think of a "motorized wheelbarrow" if you will. Great for tight access, decent lifting and minimal yard damage.
But they are not without limitations. You can't go to any rental yard and get attachments. You will most likely have to buy what you need or build it. The short wheelbase, wheeled or tracked, makes them unstable on a lot of terain, and they have a limited amount of power.
The full sizemachines have an increadible amount of lifting power, the new tracked machines limit yard damage equal too mini's and can all but "float" over mud and soft terain.
You have to look at what you expect the machine to do, and the enviornment you want to use it to make an informed decision.
I have three full size machines at my access, but the compactness and weight, as well as lifting ability and being able to do a LOT of medium/decent sized jobs BY MYSELF influenced me to make the purchase of the mini.

 

[arborworks1]

I also weighed the transport factor into my decision. A mini fits almost anywhere. On a rack on the back of a truck. In a pickup, etc. No special trips required to move equipment around. No trailers for the most part.

A mini also is useful if you are off and on a machine all day.

 

[sawinredneck]

I also weighed the transport factor into my decision. A mini fits almost anywhere. On a rack on the back of a truck. In a pickup, etc. No special trips required to move equipment around. No trailers for the most part.

A mini also is useful if you are off and on a machine all day.

I have to take exception to the first part. Being that I just have a half ton (My wife is still mad about this) and my machine weighs 2200#'s, I cannot load it in the bed!! Just something to think about.

 

[arborworks1]

Sorry, I thought all treemen had a real truck.

 

[sawinredneck]

UMMMMMMMMMMM........................

The "redneck" wasn't enough of a clue? Really

 

[SkwerI]

Andy, I also have a half ton Ford ('02 supercab) and it will carry 2200 lbs in the bed just fine. Try to get the weight in front of the rear axle though. It helps to keep the steering from getting too light.

 

[arborworks1]

HA

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Transport is a huge consideration when you are dealing with DOT. You need portability with out extra money on transport etc to the gov. . Can I trailer it reasonable? Can I even put it in a truck?
These are major factors with a piece of equipment. In my neck of the woods, shopping for a piece of equipment that will be very diversified in the jobs it will do and transportable (and my terrain) is very much how I have to shop. Not only price, but what will my money buy in diversity...
A mini sounds great.. but I don't do much in yards.... Can I get track driven and power, attachments, and portability in the package?... Can I use it on my property plus work? Mini probably wont cut the mustard.... I need more of a small dozier, blade with back hoe attachment. Can I add a forestry mower? Portable? Can I bypass DOT regs on it? Can I do driveways, grading, culverts, brushing, roads, yarding, loading etc?
A lot of thought in my environment... Then add cost....

 

[sawinredneck]

Andy, I also have a half ton Ford ('02 supercab) and it will carry 2200 lbs in the bed just fine. Try to get the weight in front of the rear axle though. It helps to keep the steering from getting too light.

WELLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

I guess the toolbox will have to come out, and I will have to buy some of them high dollar ramps (and hope I don't flip it unloading it) and take the tailgate off. Or I could just go on lying and use that handy dandy trailer sitting in front of the house that I already have ramps for, and will easily carry it around

 

[sawinredneck]

Transport is a huge consideration when you are dealing with DOT. You need portability with out extra money on transport etc to the gov. . Can I trailer it reasonable? Can I even put it in a truck?
These are major factors with a piece of equipment. In my neck of the woods, shopping for a piece of equipment that will be very diversified in the jobs it will do and transportable (and my terrain) is very much how I have to shop. Not only price, but what will my money buy in diversity...
A mini sounds great.. but I don't do much in yards.... Can I get track driven and power, attachments, and portability in the package?... Can I use it on my property plus work? Mini probably wont cut the mustard.... I need more of a small dozier, blade with back hoe attachment. Can I add a forestry mower? Portable? Can I bypass DOT regs on it? Can I do driveways, grading, culverts, brushing, roads, yarding, loading etc?
A lot of thought in my environment... Then add cost....

This was th reason I started this thread Stephan!! For what you do you really need a full size machine. It would be a GREAT write off on the taxes, get the machine and what you know you need, then you can rent the attachments as you go along. Rent them enough, then buy them.
A mini will really do nothing but piss you off!! It's not large enough to do what you expect, and too tippy to work in a lot of what you talk of. I'm not sure a full size will work in a lot of areas you talk of!!
And for your brushing work, get the "brushcat" bushhog for it!! You can take a lot more when you don't have to drive over it first!!!!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Well a flail mower works great here. Basically a forestry mower is a stump grinder with a huge drum and attitude.. Same teeth
Yeah a mini wolud be too tippy, have to have some serious wheel breadth and base to work on our slopes.
I could adapt my pull behind with some welding and get a brush hog effect for the smaller stuff... But even buck brush and manzanita have up to 24" stumps and a brush hog will only about get 2.5 inch.
Basically I need to merge a bull dozier with a brush machine. Bull dozier makes a mess of it unless you have a set of brush forks and scythe attachment which enables you to lose some of the dirt as you brush with it. Optimally you really need to minimize any erosion issues. This is why hand clearing is the way to go, both financially and ecologically. Mix the two and balance it.. There ya go .... This is what we are trying to achieve and expand on other types of work to help pay for the equipment. A piece of equipment does not pay for itself as idle. It needs to work as much as possible to help offset it's actual cost. So diversity is extremely important!

 

[sawinredneck]

There is also a tree shear as an option. Shear the big stuff, drag it to a pile then brushhog the rest. Leave the stumps and under growth for erosion purposes. Not that I have done any of this

Edit: On the slopes, face downhill, then back up and go down again. It's alot easier to right a machine with something on the front, than to get it off it's back. Not that I would know about that either!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

That is exactly what we deal with here Andy... Leave the stumps and roots for erosion purposes... The grasses come right back in within a year or two. The stumps (for most parts) rot and are removable after 3-5 years with few exceptions. Even some trees (if you had a forestry mower) would be better off as chips adding to the soil than as firewood hauled out of unforgiving places no matter what equipment (unless cord wood went to $400.00 plus per).
Most of this work we do is for forest reclamation or fire suppression. And in my business and my company principals, some brush left for habitat or for transit ways for species to move through in the woods is a priority. Clear cutting is NOT an option in my company unless it is entirely necessary for fire protection. Erosion problems are a big no no and very cost prohibitive (seeding and straw for example, not to mention fines if you fail) .
Most equipment can go up and down 30-50 percent of our slopes if they are track type. High track preferred. No traversing btw, Just up and down. We won't mention the rocks .. LOL

 

[sotc]

my mini with the bmg only weighs in at 1600#s. will lift over 1k#s, goes through a 3' gate, under a 5' deck. i can rent tillers, augers, trenchers, stumpers, rippers, borers at my local rental yards. ive looked at small sit down skid steers that weigh in around 3k, and only have 12-1400# lift capacity and 15hp. i like the lift height on these. some of the newer minis have 20 something horsepower and higher flow hydraulics. id say either go big or go mini. .02

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I would love to go mini.. I guess I would have to be able to rent one and try it out in my environment. Urban environment I would endorse a mini all the way.

 

[arborworks1]

In the brush or woods what have you. The mini can duck and weave through the forest and leave little to no footprint(erosion). A full size machine will cause you to clear more than you want in most cases.

I agree they both have there places. But a mini will do all the work of a large machine. Rent a bigger machine and bill it out.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Here is my problem.. I would have to rent a mini with tracks to ascertain that it would work for me. So.. Drive 45min to 1 hour min. to pick it up.... round trip the same... Just to place it in the field. Then return the mini then return home... So basically, the mini (bobcat btw runs 250.00 for the day here) would not only run me 120.00 in fuel round trip (one ton and trailer in a reasonable fashion if I did not have to drive further for P/U) and then pay 250 max a day for it and attachment (which is often charged separate), then round trip again (at 120.00 per), I would know I could use it... Nawwwww I will wait for the free trial TY

 

[arborworks1]

Demo one from a dealer. They will bring whatever you want right to you jobsite.

Most of the chipper demos we did the sales guy helped us work. I'm talking about dude was dragging brush, raking, Hell we had him roping limbs by the end of the day.

Bandit guy still calls when he is around town.

 

[brendonv]

You can't do this with a full size.

A mini runs on $5 a day, leaves no signs that you've been in the yard, maneuvers through anything, easy on/off for the operator, they are just damned good.

Andy-As far as ramps goes, a local tree guy (the one who bought Robers Ramrod) had a good idea. He went to a lumber yard and picked up scrap LVL's. They are crazy strong. I'll be getting a longer set soon. He paid $20. They didnt flex at all when I loaded it.

 

[sotc]

stephen, the mini rental should cost closer to 150 a day. if your spending 120 in fuel for 1.5- 2 hours driving its time for a newer truck

 

[CurSedVoyce]

True I did exaggerate the fuel. As for the rental I would not know. I do know that a Bob Cat up here is $250.00 for the day WO fuel. I also know that one hour from me, a smallllllll stump grinder runs 180.00 for the day. I would say that 120.00 in fuel total would be more the truth towing the trailer and mini about... That's with in 2 hours at todays fuel prices. It does get frustrating that we don't have many options in renting equipment to try it out up here. But then again that's the nature of the beast when you choose the boonies to live in Did I mention we don't have a traffic signal in my town???

 

[sotc]

maybe check a multiday rental out, might be worth it then

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I'll check around, see if I can find one with tracks to try and work a thang on a three day job or sumtin... Good idea

 

[SkwerI]

How many thousands of miles are you driving to pick up this rental? I can get three states away and back on $120 in fuel, and my truck only gets 12 mpg! I'm also 200 miles from the Georgia border.

 

[sawinredneck]

I dissagree about being able to do anything with a mini. It would be a pain in arse to load a dumptruck, I'd have to have ramps up to the bed etc. I can't pop a stump out with mine like I can a big machine. And I certainly can't dig like a big machine!
I've got to get my toothbar done, man I needed that today! I was trying to cut down a hump where they had backfilled a water line, probably two years ago? They had to cut through the sod with picks and shovels before I could cut it down. Trying to "back drag" with the bucket took a learning curve as well. I had to get off the platform and walk behind it to keep weight on the bucket. The short wheelbase made it difficult to grade and smooth afterwards also. But the guys were tickled pink, it beat a wheelbarrow (which their boss called just as I got there and said he wasn't going to be bringing anyways). And I was in and out in an hour, when they had planned 6-8 hours for this job.

Thats a neat idea about the composite beams for ramps, I might look into that in the future. But with a toolbox in a 6' bed, I would have to take it out to get the machine in anyway, so I am not sure it's worth that right now.

Most everything mini rental wise around here is Bobcat based. That is the only service center that has mini's. You can rent the Prodigy at Home Depot, but you have to take it all, machine, trailer with attachments, for I think $425 a day. I need to make a few calls this week and double check on that, but I am afraid I am SOL on renting.