Lanyard Innovations

[bstewert]

Two separate lanyards for me, one 12' and one 18'. Each one a different color. I really tried to make DEDA work at first, cuz I liked the "idea," but it just didn't work at all for me.

In fir trees, it's nice having a long lanyard to toss to the next higher branch. Dealing with the end of a long climbline in a thick of branches is just a big ol' mess. In an open spreading oak, not so bad.

I'm probably the only one that does this, but in rec climbs or cat rescues in firs I'll carry an 80' pre-rigged Ddrt line stuffed in a kids backpack. SRT up as high as I can throw or shoot, then double-lanyard up. I may have to re-crotch 1-3 times going down, but it's easier for me than descending on two lanyards. Usually I'll have to switch back to the SRT line to get to the ground.

 

[tophopper]

Shorten up that distel there Jeff....... Ive always prefered a distel to be alot tighter...........try it, you may like it.

 

[bonner1040]

Here's my set-up: it's a complicated beeyotch.

Wow butch, if you put any more unnecessary stuff on that rig you might get to weighed down to climb...

il admit my setup is a little more congested but i have to admire the simplicity...

 

[MasterBlaster]

Normally, I don't even have that red descender attached. I musta been doing pine takedowns that day.

 

[Brocky]

A good way to use the double ended lanyard is to use two fiction hitches on it to be able to control both ends separately. The addition of a swivel that the friction hitches connect to keeps things from getting tangled. I use english prusiks that are about 14" long for easier hip thrusting.

 

[Burnham]

With all due respect, that's a bit strident, isn't it? Understandable: "DEDA never worked for me." But ... "stupid" ? ? ?

Perhaps it is, but I did issue my judgement with the caveat, "imo". In my opinion, I still think it's stupid idea .

And you my friend, and of course everyone else as well, is entitled to disregard that judgement.

I'm sorry if my certitude rubbed the wrong way, I had no intention of implying that your opinion need agree with mine .

 

[RIVERRAT]

I agree John. That one was tied in a flurry to get me through a job because the other friction cord had become coated with pine sap. I do need to play around more with with different types of cord for that hitch also.

 

[Jack]

Perhaps it is, but I did issue my judgement with the caveat, "imo". In my opinion, I still think it's stupid idea .

And you my friend, and of course everyone else as well, is entitled to disregard that judgement.

I'm sorry if my certitude rubbed the wrong way, I had no intention of implying that your opinion need agree with mine .

Oh, no offense taken ... or intended. Actually, I think we might agree on this. I was just questioning the wording. The DEDA idea is not mine and the idea is not stupid, IMO.

I don't think ideas, in themselves, are stupid. Using ideas that don't work for you? ... yeah, I agree, that's stupid.

To the OP: I know DEDA's not for everyone. But, I've been fortunate and found a way to make it work quite well since I first learned it a few years ago. It takes a completely different 'mind set' similar to SRT vs. DdRT. As Treetx so aptly said: "To each their own."




ps; I still like my hammer ... happily used it today even though "that's just so wrong." LOL ... but that's another thread ...

 

[Brocky]

Hi Jack, would you please explain how you made the double ended lanyard work for you? As I stated above the use of two friction hitches and a swivel worked for me.

 

[bstewert]

The BCS is a stupid idea.

 

[Ax-Man]

I must be one of the few guys that actually like to use a DEDA I will admit there isn't a whole lot of use for it and is about the same as using two single ended lanyards but I like the DEDA. Ever since I started climbing I have seen a need for it. At least for me anyway.

Where I find the need for it is just to have an extra point,mostly for balance out on the end of a limb doing trim work or if your working in a decurrent tree and your above your TIP. The DEDA comes in handy if your out on a limb pruning without spurs and need to advance a little farther, your climb line is starting to pull you back and you have already tied in with your primary lanyard but you still need to go that extra few feet. You can throw the secondary part of the DEDA system ahead you,clip it to your D ring and pull yourself forward more and let your primary lanyard run out to readjust it. Works good if you don't have any good toe holds for your feet. Like I said having that extra balance comes in handy. When doing removals that extra point is nice when your feet are below a crotch union but you can only connect your primary lanyard to one of the leaders or the other. That second part of the DEDA tied into the other leader coming out of the union makes for a nice comfortable stable work station to cut one of the leaders without having to fight being pullled off to one side.

I am tired of doing bookwork for the coming tax season so I thought I would take a pic of my present DEDA set-up. I know my climbing system is somewhat dated by todays standards but it still gets me by for what little climbing I still do. I am beginning to hate that saddle these days . It hurts my hips now and either I have lost more weight or the saddle has stretched because it falls off my hips working in the summer if my chainsaw is hanging down in the center.

When I first got into DEDA I set my system up with both sides having pulley's and hitches. I changed that after I got tired of carrying the extra weight around and decided to lighten things up and add some versitility to my lanyard.

This set-up has at least 15 feet of rope if not more. The gold biner with the blue pulley is my primary lanyard. I can make it into one big long lanyard if need be or take it off the side D and clip it to the center of my saddle if I need to or make a sort of centering lanyard or a short climb line SRT style, which doesn't thrill me. The second part of my system which I hope you can see is the silver biner, dog snap slack tender with the prussik loop and that purple screw gate biner . I can use this like a second lanyard if my primary is being used or disconnect the prussik and unsnap the dog snap from the rope quickly from that silver biner to make a big long lanyard for my primary side. If I move my primary lanyard to the middle of the saddle and clip it in, I still have the option of using the secondary side of this DEDA as a regular lanyard.

This isn't for everyone and it does get in the way at times and takes a little getting used to but after I streamlined this set-up from the other way I had it has worked out much better. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Jack]

Hi Jack, would you please explain how you made the double ended lanyard work for you? As I stated above the use of two friction hitches and a swivel worked for me.

Brocky - I do use hitches but no swivels or pulleys.

FWIW, it's really fairly simple: 1 rope, 2 snaps, 2 'biners, 2 Distels ... that's about it. Details {link}

There are a few setup & use tricks. But, I ain't sellin' nothin' ... I don't want to derail the thread ...

However, I do have a dedicated lanyard for 'pitchy' removals: 1 rope, 1 snap, 1 'biner, 1 Distel - which is exactly half the DEDA ... what's that, SESA? :roll:

 

[bonner1040]

AX-Man,

Nice post, good system. i like your setup but i wouldnt like having the seperate adjusters. One advantage i see is that if weighting your primary you can adjust your secondary without removing weight from the primary. I dont run into situations where this is super important that often but i def have found situations where that would make it a bit easier. I like the streamlined approach of one adjuster as well as the smooth tighten and loosen of the smooth mechanical cam.

The other thing is that you can switch one to your bridge or center point when you want, that is neat. When i run into a situation where that is helpful i just tie a clove hitch in my lanyard and clip that clove hitch to the middle hole in my HC pulley system, voila i have an extra middle anchored lanyard.

Lastly i gotta agree, IMO like you i have always seen a need for that second lanyard, regardless of others feelings. I see how it can be gotten by without, and it isnt some magic remedy but it just helps out more often than not, for the many reasons you listed. Maybe it is just m climbing style but at east i am not alone!

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I can see a DEDA system being good with and SRT on big conifers. If you can get a good shot at say 60', but need to advance to 100', you can stay on one side of the trunk without weaving through branches to obtain new redirects. Just hopscotch your DEDA up, and if you hit a bees' nest, just jump over a solid crotch, and descend (I think, just figuring this from my couch after breakfast, but I think that it works out).

 

[bonner1040]

I can see a DEDA system being good with and SRT on big conifers. If you can get a good shot at say 60', but need to advance to 100', you can stay on one side of the trunk without weaving through branches to obtain new redirects. Just hopscotch your DEDA up, and if you hit a bees' nest, just jump over a solid crotch, and descend (I think, just figuring this from my couch after breakfast, but I think that it works out).

Another shamless plug at the same old thread in just under 15 minutes!!! Why shoot to 60' and hopscotch to 100'? you can just use the ol Air Cannon easypeazy

https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?15243-Compressed-Air-Cannon-Throwline-Launcher

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Height isn't always the issue, rarely is. More about accuracy and obstructions for me. Getting a good branch collar shot a 100' up a fir is hard pressed around here, unless you're climbing old growth with an open understory. 100' up conifers, branches are usually too small for anything but a good collar shot for a doubled SRT base-tie load, and hard to dance the weight around the trunk for a trunk cinch.

 

[bonner1040]

Height isn't always the issue, rarely is. More about accuracy and obstructions for me. Getting a good branch collar shot a 100' up a fir is hard pressed around here, unless you're climbing old growth with an open understory. 100' up conifers, branches are usually too small for anything but a good collar shot for a doubled SRT base-tie load, and hard to dance the weight around the trunk for a trunk cinch.

You make excellent points. I dont do alot of conifers here in ohio. If we do its usually felling anyway. Plus they dont get THAT big.

 

[Brocky]

Thanks Jack, that system looks very nice the way it stows away. My system has both friction hitches together on a swivel carabiner that clips near the center of the harness. I park the end carabiners on the ri ght D ring and drape the long loop behind my handsaw. Hi Southsound, you're right it works good in conifers if you're able to control both ends. It's easier than using your climbline becauce it is shorter and lighter.

 

[Burnham]

I can see a DEDA system being good with and SRT on big conifers. If you can get a good shot at say 60', but need to advance to 100', you can stay on one side of the trunk without weaving through branches to obtain new redirects. Just hopscotch your DEDA up, and if you hit a bees' nest, just jump over a solid crotch, and descend (I think, just figuring this from my couch after breakfast, but I think that it works out).

This is where I always run into trouble with a DEDA vs. two seperate lanyards...I near max out one end moving to a position from where I want to advance the other end further...and I don't have enough length left to do squat with. Now I know I could have made a 40 foot DEDA, but that is a true hassle to deal with, far more trouble than 2 of 20 feet each, and again, imo .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Scott Baker talks up the what I think he calls a spider leg lanyard, or some such thing. I think its getting up to about 80' total. LONG lanyard/ Short Climbline system for old growth, probably after an SRT access line. Steve Sillett seems to be who he picked it up from, if I'm not mistaken. Haven't tried it myself, but those guys have climbed a lot of big trees.

Just seems like if you have two 20' lanyards, you can only DdRT/lanyard up 10' at a time (or 20' roughly, SRT), whereas a 40' would allow you, lets say 4-5' around the trunk, and 35' SRT.)

My thoughts are from the couch, and going from others experience, so by no means is it an expert, experience DEDA opinion.

 

[Burnham]

Also known as "motion lanyard"...I built one of about 80 feet, myself. It works fine, but only because it's got plenty of length to work with, unlike most DEDA lanyards. It still suffers from the problem of the loop in the middle being a hassle getting hung on things.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I can believe that tangle problem.

Yeah, Motion Lanyard.

 

[Burnham]

I think I have a jpeg. file of a drawing of the beastie on my work computer...if anyone wishes, I could post it early next week

 

[Jack]

I think I have a jpeg. file of a drawing of the beastie on my work computer...if anyone wishes, I could post it early next week

Burnham, It would be great to see your 'Motion Lanyard' drawing, please. I remember the concept from long ago but have forgotten the details. I would very much appreciate you posting that jpeg ... thx, Jack.

 

[bonner1040]

Burnham, It would be great to see your 'Motion Lanyard' drawing, please. I remember the concept from long ago but have forgotten the details. I would very much appreciate you posting that jpeg ... thx, Jack.

Motion Lanyards: To my knowledge first described in The Wild Trees by Richard Preston, and again to my knowledge designed and implemented by Steve Sillet after learning the Blakes Hitch. Could be used with any common friction hitch and slack tending system. Essentially a Large DEDA.




Not my Pictures, obtained by doing Google Image search for "Motion Lanyard"

Pretty sure this is mostly for rec climbers, i believe people on the Buzz use this a lot, could be wrong. Seems like it would be useful in a rec setting in large conifers, but would be limited for use in takedowns and prunes. I think lowering/exiting the tree would be difficult. Its my understanding that this is used primarily with SRT Access lines and then an ALT like climbing technique with short throwlines for moving and exploring high canopies and tree to tree traverses, cool stuff, but not applicable to what i, personally do day to day. The large amount of slack left as a remainder would be difficult to manage for me.

I have tried the "skywalking" and it is physically demanding and difficult. With the right pulley setup to tend and a pantin it would be much easier.