Jump Back Junior!

[theTreeSpyder]

This tree fell in Hurricane, partially blocked road, few of us civies cut and folded some limbs to open street up 5am day after; neighborhood looked like a war zone. We live on a DeadEnd of another DeadEnd(yeah, no surprise); no electric (which went 10days,then no internet) so in/out was a very primary concern of survival!

1st guy made deal for all but worst hauled huge load in 1 'emergency' service in/out/next early one morning, had huge truck and loader; knocked the dog shit out of this part of our holocaust, clean and legit out of state pro..
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Newer, Pakastani neighbors not so easy to talk to, when i saw some one looking at tree, i talked to them later and tried to tell how dangerous it was and needed to really make sure got right guy. They assumed i was selling (which i get) and said other guy was doing, maybe next time and closed door rather promptly.
Another guy came along days later, and i'd think made it worser and left; promised would return.
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[theTreeSpyder]

i tried to warn neighbor again, tricky, now more dangerously loaded; choose worker carefully
>>they assured me guy#2 would be back to finish, assumed i was selling something and closed door.
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i told wifey about this; and she texted me at work one day; job was done that morning (guy#3) and indeed roots had sat up as i said;
i checked out on way home and saw much worser than had thought:
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Coulda happened in 1/4 second; massive amount of force relief and pitch; this is some dangerous work!
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Some counter lean roots did try to hold, most just snapped; dryish, degraded looking roots for all like some kind of progressive rot allowed release in the high winds. Ground obviously drains well.
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In background of pic#3; is guy across street stump too; that tree got pitched 45degrees years ago and miraculously stood until this hurricane, very little root pull, much crown rot, absolute wonder it stood! Lower part of ground, had volcano mulch real bad..

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Different tree, no top compression (so all float/support is all spring loaded thru stump/roots); no root rot.
Tried to warn guy, said he's depending on city to do; no thanx/maybe next time and had wife close door.
less than 1/2 block from me for birds, 3 block drive.
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i always try to find tight roots and sever, sometimes in stages as releasing spar load pieces so roots do help but not hurt/cause sit back up!
i like using reciprocating saw for large or lots of roots; handsaw on smaller scenarios>> to keep chainsaw clean/no sand

 

[MasterBlaster]

A treeman just can't catch a break!

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Well, if they do prefer; it not to be to the chin!
i've called any spring loaded tree/branch a leaf-spring; mess you up suddenly like tractor suspension letting loose!
As Mr. Miyagi says, best way to win that fight tis 'no be there'!
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In seeing tree fails after hurricanes etc. amused to hearing how stupid and untrustworthy the trees are; as surrounded by 1000's of trees that didn't fail!.
>>in short order;after some examination generally can steer that around to : how the frick' did that tree stand so long under these conditions!

 

[DMc]

If there are pictures here, I am not seeing them.

 

[SeanKroll]

I start into a post-storm conversations with panicky people with something like. "Big storm, huh? Big storm where almost 100% of the trees stayed in the ground, and most have no significant damage. Trees are really amazing..."

 

[MasterBlaster]

Does anyone else not see the pics?

I'm seeing them.

 

[SkwerI]

Sean, I've spent decades trying to calm people and prevent them from killing perfectly healthy trees just because they are panicked. What I've discovered is that once they have made up their mind to kill the tree then nothing you say will change their mind. They may agree with you for the moment but you drive by 6 months later and the tree is gone.

For the most part I've given up trying to save trees when the owner wants them gone. I'm really good at removing trees and make a bunch of money doing it, so I'd rather have the work than sit at home waiting for another pruning job.

And yes, I see the pics but got a headache trying to follow the story. I got the general idea that these are trees with root tension but other than that it's just hard to read.

 

[Mick!]

I too have long since given up trying to persuade people to retain trees they want out.

I too couldn’t really follow the text. But I can see the pictures!

 

[DMc]

Lucky me, ha! Well, i am using a tablet at the moment will switch to a laptop later and see if that works.

 

[DMc]

I can see the pictures on my iPhone.

 

[Bermy]

I can see the pictures...and I get what you are saying!

Freshly wind-blown trees are DANGEROUS. There is so much potential energy stored in the stump that right at that moment when they are cutting all the top weight off...BANG up it goes. People in general really have no idea what is about to happen.
I did some training for the Regiment about three months after a hurricane, the windblow I had them working on still had enough energy in them to give them a decent idea of how quickly they can move when you make that one critical cut.

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Root tensions on blow overs can recoil like a spring suddenly unloaded; when you take the leveraged load off.
This can hit you, push saw into you or outright kill you or make you wish it did!!
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The first tree (posts 1 & 2); sat up 45 degrees jumped back 14 foot; clear over/leaving red box area; sawyer came running across street and buddy talked to him.
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The next tree floating unsupported (post 3); can be worse! It is massive wood, massively leveraged over to parallel with ground, no other support than root tensions!!
>>this also introduces the topic of city curb stopping roots from going opposite direction than lean, like if couldn't put guy wire there to support tower
>>this and the last 2 trees(post 5) have curb stopping roots on offside also, sidelean increased by same city services trimming the curb/street/offside.
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i favour relieving spring tension with reciprocating saw to not get sand in chainsaw;
>>sometimes cut some load off; relieve some root tensions in cycles;especially not to increase top bind/ compressions that root tensions are helping to relieve.
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In 1st post; i think 2nd man cutting off at red line was a mistake; increased the top bind that it was helping ballast against in midspan;
>>especially if looking at relieving some root tensions that are also relieving some top bind compressions
>>he bailed, no money, said "i'll be back" words, and never returned
>>i also would have put some log under midspan so couldn't sit down as far when cutting, to limit top compressions
The sudden violent jump back 14' and upwards pitch could have maimed or killed last man;but he walked away with experience hopefully can decipher over time!
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Never sure just how much leveraged load can be relieved; to trigger spring into lethal action!
>>if spring reacts when cutting, can get you and sometimes throw ; kinda trebuchet the now loose piece over backwards as it sits up!!
>>all actions, all risks on the loaded axis as always watch the 12 and 6 of the tree force lay just like barber chair sitback or rope recoil!
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Also: tree in posts#1,2 had no high or even mid root connections to ground for high leverage pull back
>>it's total spring came from unseen /below ground.
Others do have high and mid pulling roots giving some clues to forces, can feel tensions in roots
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Generally we see root rot as in post#1,2 tree reason for fall or flooding ground giving up to healthy roots pulling
Generally if roots snapped at near root crown = rot; roots lawn pulled totally up is flooding / ground heave
>>sometimes in overly watered(many super green) lawns, roots aren't challenged enough to chase water, and don't grow long enough to leverage support
>>but rest of pix in fair drainage; post#3 fault is curb stopping roots from growing in most essential direction against hard lean that had tree over house; last pic/2 trees is similar to smaller scale.
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Root rot can be hidden,but some of the rest of these bio-issues are foreseeable;
This was area that water was too available, shallow, close roots, super many, they did try to hold;didn't snap off to rot.
From 2004 hurricane quad(year of Charley, Frances, Ivey, Jeanne ) that marched thru here:

 

[murphy4trees]

After a hurricane I explain to homeowners that they have PTSD, and they are just freaked out right now and wait at least 6 months to make a decision on the tree, and if they still want it down they can have it done then, because after all the tree just made it through a hurricane. It's not going anywhere.. Doesn't always work, but i think using the word PTSD is helpful so they can realize its more about them than the tree.....