is this tree over thinned?

[woodworkingboy]

With artistic pruning, there are some interesting possibilities that nature never conceived

 

[Tucker943]

Im not on board with the notion that trees never need thinning. In a residential setting, they absolutely do. Not all of them. Trees in the woods seldom sucker out the way trees in the 'hood do. Not enough sunlight, space, or nutrition IMO. Trees that live a solitary life beside a house often have more than enough of those 3 things to sprout out every which way, which, is not good for the tree if it is intended to live to its potential.

We can go round and round and theorize that nature can handle itself and that we dont need to derive techniques to manage trees but that is simply nuts. When nature came about, we didnt have billions of humans and millions of homes mixed in with it. Thinning is a technique that allows both trees and humans to co-exist so that we dont need to cut down every tree that becomes compromised over time as a result of a dense crown that is creating problems.

 

[Mr. Sir]

Most of them sucker out BECAUSE of over-thinning.

 

[MasterBlaster]

That's why I like a thick canopy.

 

[Tucker943]

Ive worked in hundreds of trees that were suckered beyong belief after having been never touched. On the flip side, I certainly can say Ive been in a great number of trees tht suckered out as a result of stress, such as being topped, over thinned, and so on. Im not saying all trees need or should be thinned. But I am saying that I stand firm on the fact that it is a very useful method for prolonging the strength and life of a tree in many cases.

 

[Knotahippie]

Suckers - from the ground.

Water sprouts - from the crown.

 

[treelooker]

Overthinned? Maybe--depends on species, client goals etc.

Trees benefit from pruning for their own good. Pruning can help them remain standing, resist pests, etc. This "we only prune trees for people' stuff is wrong. If I reduce or thin a limb or a tree to make it less likely to break or die or fall, that benefits the tree.

So did you prune those girdling roots?

 

[sotc]

Ive worked in hundreds of trees that were suckered beyong belief after having been never touched.

Sure, they were reacting to something that happened. Another tree failed nearby, big limb broke off etc.

 

[Tucker943]

Willie, my man, thats not true. You have silver maples or pin oaks out your way?

 

[Tucker943]

Science and research have proven time and again the benefits of pruning a tree. Anyone who denies that is still living in the days of flush cuts. Its not hype and hogwash, its the current industry standard.

 

[brendonv]

In light of the species being one of the prime targets of Sudden Oak Death, I would say they looked over pruned and perhaps(hard to tell from a picture) a bit lion tailed. Its tough because sometimes an oak can look that way just as a result of deadwooding.

Word. Take this tree. It was surely deadwood only. No live branches came off except from trunk suckers up to the main limbs.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yup.. Especially live oaks. Some here that I have done just dead wooding and taking out crossed limbs look too thin and lions tailed. The thing I keep telling myself.... It's an interior live oak... it will fix itself in no time at all...

 

[Porkbrick]

Overthinned? Maybe--depends on species, client goals etc.

Trees benefit from pruning for their own good. Pruning can help them remain standing, resist pests, etc. This "we only prune trees for people' stuff is wrong. If I reduce or thin a limb or a tree to make it less likely to break or die or fall, that benefits the tree.

there is, in my opinion, an important distinction between thinning and pruning. thinning is a type of pruning but not all pruning involves thinning. i still think that, outside of some very specific circumstances, thinning alone holds little or no benefit for mature trees. now, if thinning is is a byproduct of relieving endweight, cleaning crowded crotches, eliminating rubbing branches, or removing disease, that is a positive imo. otherwise its kind of like hedging, not necesarily harmfull, but the benefits are down to our aesthetics.

[/QUOTE]So did you prune those girdling roots?[/QUOTE]

im sorry to say that i did not. i am a certified arborist, but my role here was as foreman and assessor. the arborist in charge of the project will be having the discussion with the client as to how to proceed. imo it is beyond just cutting the root (removal is not outside the realm of possibility), which is only a symptom of the greater damage deeper down.

jaime

 

[sotc]

Willie, my man, thats not true. You have silver maples or pin oaks out your way?

Yep, they love life here.

Of course theres exceptions to most every rule but more often than not, I believe that to be the case. So often we come to jobs and we don't know the history of the site and things have happened that the current owner doesn't even know

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Brendon.... I take it they lifted the one side in the past for visual to the front of the church or town hall???

 

[Tucker943]

You make a very valid point Willie regarding us not really knowing the history of the tree. I tip my hat to that.

 

[treelooker]

...my role here was as foreman and assessor. the arborist in charge of the project will be having the discussion with the client as to how to proceed. imo it is beyond just cutting the root (removal is not outside the realm of possibility), which is only a symptom of the greater damage deeper down.

jaime

By cut, I meant remove; sorry. Removing the visible sgr looks like a nobrainer; relatively small.

So after cutting the one, there will be others. So cut them, too, in time...what other kind of damage do you mean?

 

[Bermy]

In each case it can be different.
I do/did a lot of thinning of trees in Bermuda because of the hurricanes. ALL of these trees are introduced trees, not native or endemic and thus prone to damage from high winds. Casuarinas in particular do not respond to wind sheer and continue to grow straight up, that combined with out shallow soil and underlying geology of soft, layered aeolean limestone renders them extremely prone to blow down. We thin, we heavily reduce, the trees can be managed on a 2-5 year cycle if they are desired to be kept as windbreaks or for aesthetic reasons, otherwise, out they come.
Poincianas, avocados, golden shower, left to get too big, or out of balance (important, because very big, balanced poincianas can weather some amazing wind speeds!) or too thick (think of a sail)...they are the first to shatter, break and self destruct in a storm!

Conceding Burnham's point though, really, mainly the nearby presence of people or their structures is the driving factor for any of the work I do on trees...except casuarinas...can you tell we have a problem with casuarinas?!

Native and endemic trees in their natural environment fare so much better and as a result are relatively maintenance free.

 

[Burnham]

This is all noise...trees do not need one single thing cut off of them except to modify their structure to accomodate life in close proximity to us.

 

[Bermy]

This is all noise...trees do not need one single thing cut off of them except to modify their structure to accomodate life in close proximity to us.

Yup, that says it right there...and that's why I'm in business!

Although, thinking further (always dangerous)...in a threatened environment of limited size, where introduced trees are outcompeting natives and endemics, overshading, outgrowing and where blowdowns crush and maim surviving natives, tree modification is for the benefit of the remaining original environment, In Bermuda, if we did not cull invasive and introduced trees the nature reserves would be overwhelmed in a few short years...endemic Bermuda cedars do not thrive when shaded by invasives...altered shade, soil pH and density from invasives suppresses native and endemic understorey plants...
It is estimated that 1 million Mexican Pepper seedlings are removed every year from Nonsuch Island, the premier nature reserve in Bermuda, only 7 acres...and casurarina trees on the coast blow over, take down chunks of cliff, which is the priority nesting site for Tropic birds and the ENDANGERED endemic Bermuda Cahow...a seabird rescued from the brink of extinction by careful management among other things of trees in their nesting environment (my bio does say I work in nature reserves!)

 

[Porkbrick]

"By cut, I meant remove; sorry. Removing the visible sgr looks like a nobrainer; relatively small.

So after cutting the one, there will be others. So cut them, too, in time...what other kind of damage do you mean? "

i was referring to to the extensive root and trunk rot due to the fill dirt. the roots you see in the pictures are like the underground version of watersprouts, grown in response to damage to the major buttress roots, which are still buried who knows how far down. they are the only thing keeping the crown healthy looking, but they provide little or no structural support. cutting the girdling root is pointless imo if the three is structurally unsound. like i said, now that we have revealed whats going on down there it looks like the safety of the whole three is questionable. i think its hard to see how large the tree is and how rotten the trunk is in that picture. normally i would absolutely go ahead and cut a root like that.

 

[Tucker943]

This is all noise...trees do not need one single thing cut off of them except to modify their structure to accomodate life in close proximity to us.

Bingo, sounds like they need a lot done then. Because there is a whole LOT of us.

 

[brendonv]

Brendon.... I take it they lifted the one side in the past for visual to the front of the church or town hall???

Yessir.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Amazing tree.. Must of had a heck of a spread before it was pruned back from over the roof. Or potentially anyway.

 

[brendonv]

It was def. pretty sweet. Low limbs right over the lawn. Boy I was whooped that night.