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Friction Savers

Do you use friction savers?

  • Natural

    Votes: 4 18.2%
  • Ring and Ring

    Votes: 15 68.2%
  • Rope Guide

    Votes: 3 13.6%

  • Total voters
    22

brendonv

Tree Hugger
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,156
Location
Oxford, Connecticut
I had always tied in natural crotch....until Carl came over :) . While he was here I tried his Rope Guide for maybe 15 minutes. Such a nice tool, but what a price tag. Because I didn't use it for long, I don't want to dish out the $$ for one-just to find out I won't use it. I also didn't like that you can't set the RG from the ground. Money is tight, so I ordered up some rings from Wesspur and threw together 2 ring and ring FC, one 24" and one 48" for a price tag of maybe 10$ each.

Sometimes in the past I had issues with friction of the natural tie in. Maybe these ring and rings will be the sweet spot between natural friction and the Rope Guides frictionless setup.

I am just curious who uses what. Natural, Ring and Ring, or Rope Guide.

Later,

B
 

NickfromWI

King of Splices
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
4,996
Location
Snowless California
Brendon, I don't know if it's too late for this, but I think you should add, "self made adjustable."

Cool idea for a poll.

I almost never climb natural. Maybe 1/50 climbs I don't use a friction saver of some sort (sometimes the tube-style)

love
nick
 

brendonv

Tree Hugger
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,156
Location
Oxford, Connecticut
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
I tried to see if there is a poll edit options, couldn't find anything.

Just pick the style your self made FC would fit into, there's a obvious difference.

I was thinking about adding an adjustable onto my webbing FC you see in the pic, I just don't want so much clangidy clang and bulk in my system. Gotta starting thinking clearing and K.I.S.S.!
 

SkwerI

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
17,925
Location
central Florida
I already had many years of climbing before ever learning about friction savers. By that time I was quite familiar with friction at the tie in point and learned over the years to pick my tie in locations appropriately. Several years ago I learned about friction savers online and began trying to incorporate them into my climbing routine. I spent the better part of a year trying different setups.

The one consistent factor was that I ended up reclimbing at least one tree per week to retrieve a hung up piece of gear. The second negative factor was the increased twisting of my lifeline. The reduced friction at the tie in point allowed the twisting effect from my hitch to continue unabated. When I went back to natural crotch tie ins, the friction reduced the tendancy of my rope to twist.

The biggest factor in my decision to use friction savers was to reduce my injury to the tree. But I've come to accept that trees live with bumps and bruises and animals chewing their bark without any serious consequences. I've had the opportunity to examine tens of thousands of trees over my climbing career and I have yet to find a single tree that was compromised as a result of a climber's lifeline damaging a fork. I've seen a few rope burns from rigging but even those were nowhere near as perilous as might be suggested in the ISA teachings.

The only time a friction saver is desirable for me is when climbing a sappy pine tree. But even then, our pines have very thick bark so I can get away without it unless there are open wounds dripping sap all over.
 

Burnham

Woods walker
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
18,279
Location
Western Oregon
Ring and ring for me, at least of the choices you list in the poll, Brendon. I also have one that has a micro pulley for the small end and a Omega Pacific Jake biner on the other...that one is pretty smooth. And the third I have is the one Nick referred to...the adjustable ring and ring, for cinching on the clean bole of trees or spars.
 
F

Frans

Guest
I like what skwerl said, good points.
Your poll doesn't give the option of 'all of the above'. I use all of them depending on the tree.

I also have an electrical conduit one made by Dan Kraus, and a leather tube.

My rope guide gets used less than the ring and ring
 

pantheraba

More biners!!!
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
12,902
Location
near Atlanta
Most times I use a leather tube, sometimes a conduit.

I use a ring / ring / adjustable like Nick said when on a spar for a takedown. The adj. ring/ring is pretty useful. I don't have a ropeguide.

I avoid running my rope thru a natural crotch whenever I can...saves the tree and the rope.
 

Burnham

Woods walker
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
18,279
Location
Western Oregon
Whoops, I forgot, 'til Frans and Gary reminded me...I have a leather tube, too. That one sure is easy to install and retreive, most times.
 
B

Blinky

Guest
I voted ring/ring but I'm making a rope guide right now... never used one before. I lik'em because the save the rope, I don't think rope does much damage to trees unless you're using the same crotch a WHOLE lot. Like Skwerl says though, the rope hockles up a lot faster.

On pines I use 5/8" Tenex with a big ring spliced on one end and an adjuster prussic with a small ring.

I don't install from the ground. My FC stays on my spliced eye all the time and i just footlock to the TIP and pull it up to install it.

THE best trick I've learned with FCs is using a steel ring instead of a ball or a knot to pull the rig down. The ring never hangs up... almost never anyway. Got the idea from Mark Adams.

...and I like steel rings over aluminum.
 
C

countryboypa31

Guest
I just started always using a ring/ring friction saver, still want a homemade type ropeguide, but struggling with it right now. i prob use my ring/ring one 80% but that number keeps going up, probably used it the last 12 climbs though.
 

OTGBOSTON

punk in drublic
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
4,181
Location
Tha Dirty Bean...Boston Massachusetts
THE best trick I've learned with FCs is using a steel ring instead of a ball or a knot to pull the rig down. The ring never hangs up... almost never anyway. Got the idea from Mark Adams.

...and I like steel rings over aluminum.
I use a 1 1/2in washer, cheap and effective!

I also voted ring/ring but I have one made from electrical tubing that I haven't really used yet. Tube one seems like it is easier to use, easier to install and remove.
 
Last edited:

squisher

THE CALM ONE!!!!
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
23,827
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Vernon, B.C.
I use a 1 1/2in washer, cheap and effective!

I also voted ring/ring but I have one made from electrical tubing that I haven't really used yet. Tube one seems like it is easier to use, easier to install and remove.
A washer? instead of rings? how's that on the rope? And how are you certain of strength/manufacturing standards? Or am I not understanding this correctly :|: .
 

NickfromWI

King of Splices
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
4,996
Location
Snowless California
Squish, he's just using the washer as a retriever. I'm assuming he still has 2 aluminum rings on the friction saver, then when it comes time to pulling it out of the tree, you hook the washer to the end of the line rather than tying a knot in the climbing line, or using the little red ball you get with the rope guide.

love
nick
 

NickfromWI

King of Splices
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
4,996
Location
Snowless California
Buckingham will not share their rings, and I've found no supplier in the US that sells similar or identical sized steel rings. Rich H (you can find him at the buzz) has imported some that are a bit thinner, but with the same inside diameters to be used for friction saver making.

If you ever find someone selling steel versions of friction saver rings, please let me know!

love
nick
 

No_Bivy

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
6,002
rings here....I work off it and then usually go back up if there is any question it will pull. I use crotches on some removals...like locust. Any type of FS will greatly prolong the life of a rope......at least till you stick a spur into it.....
 

inztrees

inzhouse
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
992
Location
NH
wesper has rings. I got rings from don blairs booth at the tcia expoo. I have them on a climb high sling. I use it more then I use my buc fs
 
B

Blinky

Guest
Ax,

My Buck FS has aluminum rings and I don't know if they differ from the buck steel rings but... I happen to have my digital caliper on the desk here so I'll measure'em. Looks like the ones from Fresco are slightly smaller.

Large Buck Alum = 49mm ID x 77mm OD
Small Buck Alum = 30mm ID x 58mm OD

Large Italian made (Fresco) Steel = 45mm ID x 70mm OD
Small Italian made (Fresco) Steel = 28mm ID x 52mm OD

The steel ones on my Tenex FC are a lot different, I got'em from a Sherril's showroom store.
 
G

Greenhorn

Guest
I usually only natural crotch for second tie ins if needed. Conservation of energy is the reason I hardly ever natural crotch to work off of. Home made ring to rings. I use the little threaded pear shaped thing from sherrill for
retrieving them - 99 pecent success rate, better than knots.

Have friends that almost always climb off a pulley though.
 

Stumper

Treehouser
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
3,392
Location
Colorado
The poll doesn't really address what I do. 80+ % of the time I climb on natural crotches. When climbing on a TIP that my experience suggests that significant injury to the tree is a real possibility I use a ring and ring. When blocking down a spar I use an adjustable ring and ring.
 

OTGBOSTON

punk in drublic
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
4,181
Location
Tha Dirty Bean...Boston Massachusetts
Squish, he's just using the washer as a retriever. I'm assuming he still has 2 aluminum rings on the friction saver, then when it comes time to pulling it out of the tree, you hook the washer to the end of the line rather than tying a knot in the climbing line, or using the little red ball you get with the rope guide.

love
nick
correct!
 

treetx

Traveler extraordinaire
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,246
Location
Austin, TX
I use them all. Most important thing is to know when it makes sense.

I have seen beech trees damage by ropes. Birch too.

As far as them getting stuck or setting them, it is one of those things with a learning curve. The more you use them, the easier they are to set and the less they get stuck.

So Rob, will TxTCC 2008 have you as a competitor?
 
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