Filing Guides

[bonner1040]

So, I am pretty bad at filing chain. I somehow seem to just make dull chain duller, so its something I always let other people do. Duane has a pair of the Pferd CS filing guides and I have to say that I like them alot.

I initially shied away cause it seemed silly but he convinced me to try them. Since I couldnt do much worse I figured what the heck why not. I actually file really sharp chain now. The guides take down the rakers and the cutter teeth at the same time and in theory keep the proportion between them uniform.

It may not be for everyone but its definitely for me!

http://www.forestapps.com/articles/...inforHomeTreeCareLoggingArboristsFirewood.htm

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hey - if it works for you, so much the better! Nothing wrong with using a guide.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Wow, a double shot filer! I would never think to use something like that, but if it works for you, right on!

 

[bonner1040]

It looks so corny, but it works really well!

 

[MasterBlaster]

I don't think I'd want to take the rakers down EVERY time I filed. I like doing that every other, maybe every third time.

 

[gf beranek]

Filing saw chain is an art. No guides or years of experience is going to help you until you figure it out on your own.

I hand filed saw chain for 12 years before I figured it out. And only after that did my chains start cutting the way I only dreamed of.

I hand filed for 10 more years and then bought a chain grinder. And when I bought the grinder I had to learn all over again.

there are so many fine details with both methods that it is impossible to summarize. It just takes lots of practice, but with either method once you figure it out your chains will cut wood like it were butter.

I worked with so many tree guys and timber fallers through the years and not one of them could explain how exactly to sharpen a chain that I could fully understand and emulate.

It is easy to show in fine detail what a good sharp chain looks like. But attaining it in the field takes practice, practice and practice.

Patience be with all you young ones.

 

[bonner1040]

I would be a pretty lucky guy to be as good as you at sharpening chain! Thats something to aim for I guess.

Butch, I dont think they file the rakers everytime indiscriminately, only if they protrude past where the guide says they are supposed to be in relation to the cutter.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I have helped a few folks on their way to learn to file chain. Some get better. I find that the ones that have a problem advancing, aren't able to feel or see the edge to know what sharp is.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I just tell em to keep the same angles on both side and to lift up on the stroke. Don't push down!

I also like to count the strokes, but that's just a guideline.

 

[gf beranek]

You hit the nail on the head, Jay. And I was one for a long time. 12 years I told you. I just went through the motions of filing without really knowing what I was doing.

I believe that today young'uns can learn earlier because of all the great info that is being passed over the internet.

with all trade tricks being passed on today it has to be the truth.

Man in the old days real good info was so damn hard to come by. Basically you had to learn on your own. Sadly the old timers I knew didn't have all the smarts to fully explain and pass on what they knew. and a lot of them had the attitude that you should learn on your own anyway.

Sad excuse today for one in a management position.

 

[Al Smith]

Nobody can explain exactly how to file because everybody uses a different method and I think I've about seen them all .From my method of going over the top to Willards method sitting it on his lap .You have to get it down to what works the best for you .Some pick it up fast and some never do .

 

[stig]

I have taught countless apprentices to file, and they've all become decent at it.

I simply tell them that a pro faller is supposed to be able to file chain, so running a dull saw is unacceptable in this company.
Any time their saw isn't cutting 100% they get chewed out by old grumpy here.

In the beginning, I'll sometimes file their saw for them, so they get to feel how a saw should cut.
Some of them have told me afterwards, that knowing what to aim for made a big difference.

 

[Magnus]

Knowing what to aim for and see that it is possible is a must.

How sharp a cutter is is hard to say and compare if not cutting in wood.

Compensating sharpness by lowering rider/depth guage is a well known fact and make the chain/saw dangerous and ineffective.
I see it every day here... By pro's that work daily for years as well as home owners.

A way of telling is how it perform and cut. If you think a new chain is as good as it gets and you have a hard time getting your filing to match, you have a couple pretty large steps that need to be taken. Same if you file once and still is not happy so you look at the raker.... You need to look again and keep correct setting on raker and focus on filing instead. I don't touch a raker until it is needed, usually when tooth is half filed. Then I file front of it so it stand like this: \
When doing so the thin point will wear of as you run and after a couple filings more it is round and in your correct hight after the way you run and the wood cut.

When I decided I wanted to see how good I could get I collected junk chains from the loggers and dealers nearby.
I noticed very fast practice and repetition was the key.

A couple more tips...
* Always turn it half a turn after first stroke so you don't push crap in the file.
* Never quit before tooth is sharp. If it needs 1 or 10 strokes to get it as sharp as possible that is what it should have!
* Put flat file across the chain, the cutters hold it and distance between raker and file tell you how thick the fiber will be cut. The thinner it is the better it curls up and fill the tooth.
* Learn how it should look in profile. Study the chains and see the differences you do and how it affects the cutting.
* Saw dust! This was the key for me to tell how the different woods needed different filing. Long thin, curls that are evenly thick is the goal.
* Look at the wear on bar and chain. Learning how it looks when correct help a lot. Drive links gone sharp and pointy, underside of side link worn down (perhaps more on one side than other or front or back), wear on rivets, bar rails, sprockets/rims...
* Look at the cut surface, is it even and smooth like cut with a axe or rugged like it was shaped with a big rugged file. All this tells a story.

* A chain only get better as it gets filed. The further back you come in tooth, the more fiber it can hold.

 

[Bermy]

I have already confessed to still using a guide, my chains cut ok,...but I'm back in the land of real tree fallers, so I'm fixing to go and hang out with someone who's done it for a long time and see where I can get better.

 

[Tree Reb]

You shouldn't find that too hard to do, Gunns just went broke and there's a lot of fallers out of work down there.


Nick, that looks the same as the new Stihl one. Just a different colour I guess.

I've always filed by hand without a guide, it takes a while to get it right. Trial and error, just like most things I've learnt.

I saw this on Steve's site a while back.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/p57zA9OOjs0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[HolmenTree]

In the beginning, I'll sometimes file their saw for them, so they get to feel how a saw should cut.
Some of them have told me afterwards, that knowing what to aim for made a big difference.

Some of the best advice right here from Stig.
Yes a beginner or even someone who has cut for years and doesn't know what a properly sharpened sawchain should cut like should try a pro filed chainsaw.

I can't post videos or I'd bore with the long details of long post....... but my best advice for the beginner is use a GOOD CONDITION or NEW FILE.
I have seen so many discouraged saw filers trying to file with a worn out file.Like alot of saw operators who think their dull saw is cutting OK, they think their dull file is cutting OK too.
For the valuable work a sawchain does files are cheap.

 

[Altissimus]

... I remember a documentatry about the "Hot Shot" woodland firefighters on TV ... noticed they used guides getting ready. Whatever works and gets your saw back cutting well

 

[HolmenTree]

I learned how to file with a Oregon file guide when I was a beginner 8 hour a day faller. Then quickly after about a year went freehand for good.
But using a saw 8 hours a day 10-11 months of the year, it's easy to catch on free filing. My advice for the casual user is just keep using the guide.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Expanding on what I said before, some folks that want to learn to file chains, probably have little experience sharpening anything, others have more varied experiences. I think it can help to have sharpened knives or anything else before, having some basic concept of what the signs are of dull vs being sharp. I once took it for granted that folks would know what sharp feels or looks like, but it really isn't the case. Wanting to help give a guideline, I tell people that if you run your fingernail across the sharpened cutter, if it is sharp it will snag the nail a bit, if not sharp, your nail just skims across it. Someone mentioned that to me many years ago, and it was a help. I have spent years and years sharpening tools for woodwork. I can get things extremely sharp, both because I have the stones that will do it, and also because it is imperative for some types of work. I can easily shave the hair on my arm with a chisel that has the hairs jumping off. If the air could bleed, it would when carrying a chisel or plane iron from my sharpening station back to my workbench. That being said, there tends to be some degree of variation in how sharp something may get from day to day. Being that it is a physical manipulation skill, my steadiness or orientation to the stones can vary a bit from day to day, as well as the condition of the tool when I begin to sharpen. Perhaps some patience factor involved as well. I also find that to be true with saws. I mean it gets sharp, but sometimes sharper than other times.

 

[Adam_P]

I could give that guide a shot. I like that it'll do the raker at the same time. I'd say right now my filing is acceptable but not great. I've learned to be more patient with it but I still don't enjoy it. I'd probably wonder what was wrong with me if I did. I definitely don't like doing rakers.

I have an oregon mini grinder and love it. Took a while to get good with that though too. When I first started I was taking a ton off each tooth then spending the majority of the time filing the rakers back down. Now the grinder and I are good friends and that I actually do enjoy using.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Filing rakers, or filing cutters even, is like eating well, not always the most liked prep/ maintenance part of the routine, but when the performance comes, its worth it. A Big Mac of a filing job won't perform like a good steak and big salad.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I can't post videos or I'd bore with the long details of long post....... but my best advice for the beginner is use a GOOD CONDITION or NEW FILE.
I have seen so many discouraged saw filers trying to file with a worn out file.Like alot of saw operators who think their dull saw is cutting OK, they think their dull file is cutting OK too.

This is what I have a real hard tiem convincing people I have tried to teach filing, not like I am an expert. They will use a damn 50 cent file way past it's life to polish saw teeth instead of actually sharpening them. I watch them try and try and push so dang hard on the file to get it to cut when there are 2 dozen more new ones in the sharpening bag. By the Gods it is aggrevating to watch......

 

[flushcut]

I like using those little Husqy roller deals. I get very good consistant results, for me they eliminate me having to keep the file at the proper depth in the gullet and I just use the standard Oregon racker gauge.

 

[Magnus]

A good file is a must to cut a clean not rugged surface.

I clean file after each tooth, thereby not filling it so fast with crap, but eventually it will get dirty and cleaning is a must.
After a couple cleanings it usually gets "dull". This is often do to the file itself getting a fine burr on the cutters.
I then dip them in Apple cider vinegar, place them with cutter up for a minute or two, not more...
Then clean again and it is like new. This can be repeated until file get damaged from vibrations or hard surfaces.

 

[Magnus]

Another thing I learned helped me to not just get sharp chains, but also get them to last is sharp often, preferably each tank to begin with, especially on new chain. A stroke or two that will keep all teeth sharp and no need top do many strokes that eat up the surface now perfectly hardened on tooth.