Employee pay
- Thread starter cory
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SeanKroll
Treehouser
Here, it's 40 per week.
$20-25/ hour is about the lowest wage I want to pay.
I want someone worth $25-35+.
Too often, anyone not worth that much is not worthwhile.
Cheap labor makes poor choices too often.
$20-25/ hour is about the lowest wage I want to pay.
I want someone worth $25-35+.
Too often, anyone not worth that much is not worthwhile.
Cheap labor makes poor choices too often.
SkwerI
Treehouser
I paid my guys by the day, loosely based on production. That sounds good assuming more money would be a better motivator, but eventually it came back to bite me. My guys began to take the good money for granted and would get resentful on the long days. Getting extra small jobs done on the way back in to the yard became impossible and I had to schedule a day to run around and get the loose ends wrapped up. At the end I was blamed for ruining their lives and taking advantage of them in spite of all the money I threw at them.
I now understand why big successful companies pay employees just enough to get by. If they aren't hungry then they aren't willing to go the extra mile. Paying super great works about as well as welfare and just creates artificially sustained relationships. All it did for me was make me poorer throwing away all that money.
I now understand why big successful companies pay employees just enough to get by. If they aren't hungry then they aren't willing to go the extra mile. Paying super great works about as well as welfare and just creates artificially sustained relationships. All it did for me was make me poorer throwing away all that money.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Lot of truth there Brian.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
It's true, I treat my guys well, but after a few years they start feeling like I'm not treating them well. They move on and I often hear back that they didn't realize how good they had it.
One guy recently quit, drunk texted his 2 well notice. Said he was tired of all this. He did better his last 2 weeks than he had over the past year so he finished well. 2 weeks after he left he wanted to borrow a truck and trailer to haul his car somewhere. Umm, no, you're not on my insurance anymore. In my mind I was thinking no, you're "tired of all this"....
Rather than changing the way you pay your guys which is more paperwork, give them a Christmas bonus or buy lunch more often or just a raise.
One guy recently quit, drunk texted his 2 well notice. Said he was tired of all this. He did better his last 2 weeks than he had over the past year so he finished well. 2 weeks after he left he wanted to borrow a truck and trailer to haul his car somewhere. Umm, no, you're not on my insurance anymore. In my mind I was thinking no, you're "tired of all this"....
Rather than changing the way you pay your guys which is more paperwork, give them a Christmas bonus or buy lunch more often or just a raise.
treetx
Traveler extraordinaire
Brian - Truth there. Money comes and goes. No one can say that you didn't treat them the way you would want to be treated. Good on you for that. Not your fault reality is sssooo different.
Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
I’ve found thru experience that paying help good $$$ provides NO incentive to work hard long term at least from the wood-splitting angle ... I’ve split with enough help to see that work ethic comes from within/genetic. What usually happens is they will come out the gate with a full head of steam and then the slacking begins , It IS HARD PHYSICAL WORK ,make no mistake about it ! ... That’s why I try and do as much myself as possible nowadays (buck and split) , It’s a lot less stress and aggravation and I get the exercise, get to use the saws and keep all the proceeds. Unfortunately dealing with people when $ is involved always seems to bring out the worst in everyone ... my 2c
I pay my part time groundie a good hourly rate, I buy hot chocolates for her and the odd lunch, but I have also paid for two certification courses that we need, if she has to drive her car to meet me on a job, I add a bit for fuel...there are more ways to reward good work than 'just' hourly pay.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11
I bought both my guys cell phones, pay their monthly cell phone bill, buy all their gas every week, buy em a case of beer maybe every 5-6 weeks, buy their work boots and of course tee shirts and all PPE, supply drinks everyday year round, bought my main guy his car which he recently totaled and now he seems to be dragging his feet on buying a new one, I think he's waiting for me to buy it for him. Pre covid, we would go to dinner every couple months plus all expenses paid to UFC events when they are nearby. We are highly mechanized so they rarely have to do any heavy work. They just gotta drive safe (in our 4 mile radius), work safe, and I'd like em to keep busy but there's the rub.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
You should probably also start paying their rent and buying groceries for them Cory.
Yowsa!
Yowsa!
ruel
TreeHouser
Shoot Cory, I might have to come work for you if that's how you treat your guys!
I've always thought overtime over 8 makes lots of sense. It was always a drag to work 3 10 hr days, then have a day canceled. Boom, extra hard days for no extra reward. I'd be way into working somewhere with an overtime over 8 policy.
This all coming from the labor side of the equation. If you can do it without taking a hit, why not
I've always thought overtime over 8 makes lots of sense. It was always a drag to work 3 10 hr days, then have a day canceled. Boom, extra hard days for no extra reward. I'd be way into working somewhere with an overtime over 8 policy.
This all coming from the labor side of the equation. If you can do it without taking a hit, why not
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Ill climb for Cory. A most greatful man. 
lumberjack
Young man on the go
Compensation for production has always been of more interest to me than compensation for time, with balance on both ends of the scale.
I haven’t had an employee in 14 years, but maybe I’ll go that route again in the future.
I haven’t had an employee in 14 years, but maybe I’ll go that route again in the future.
I'm a union guy, so i definitely understand the labor side of the equation, and i have owned businesses since i was 12 and run a bunch of work, and understand the owner side as well. Here's my take on the labor side, I'm sure you know your own feelings as an owner.
The idea of the 8 hour day is that you have time after work to have some sort of life and time to sleep. The saying back in the day was 8 for work, 8 for family, and 8 for sleep. Most places have rules where you can only work 16, unless they keep you on overtime pay until you get at least 8 to properly rest. Same with the weekend, you need one day for you and one for church. All overtime used to be double time, as an incentive for the employer to hire more people, so more people have jobs, and when they are working you so much that it's affecting your life, you are compensated for the difference. In time most places switched to time and a half, except for Sunday because working day on end forever really sucks.
These rules and more exist to try to help the employer and employee to have a set agreement for expectations, and to help show respect and work/ life balance. Now a days, these concepts seem bordering on insanity to some people, which honestly shows how much the working class has slipped over the years. Now, there's always gonna be the burning question if the grass is greener elsewhere. That's simply human nature, same as you thinking that there's better employees out there. Honestly, both are usually correct, but this is part of it.
At any moment they can leave, and if you are not a pos you would only either lay them off due to lack of work (or agreed upon circumstances) or have just cause to fire them. If that seems kinda one sided remember that you profit from their labor, not vice versa. As an employee your income is tied to your labor input, as an employer your income is tied to their labor, not requiring your labor. Basically the more guys you have, the more you would make. Of course this requires capital investment, but that's why you are the boss and get the lion's share.
Cory, it sounds like you are a very good boss, and you take care of your guys. You have provided the iron where they can make you a ton, and pay well enough that you could easily replace your current guys with other decent guys (the real reason why bosses pay a good wage). It sounds like you are still the climber, which until you have multiple crews honestly makes sense, because no one cares like you do, and frankly climbing is a highly skilled job that can make/ break the whole operation. That was awesome that you bought the guy a car, but at this point your options are to continue to ignore the situation or to simply confront him (my opinion, i would ignore it, especially if you signed the title to him).
I once asked a very successful business friend what was his trick, and he said that if you want to do better, ask yourself how could you serve more people and do it better. By thinking like that, you realise that only by trusting people and expanding equipment wise will you make more. Think mayer tree, there's no way he could do any physical work ever, honestly i bet he simply just buys equipment and deposits money, working overtime just to keep up
The idea of the 8 hour day is that you have time after work to have some sort of life and time to sleep. The saying back in the day was 8 for work, 8 for family, and 8 for sleep. Most places have rules where you can only work 16, unless they keep you on overtime pay until you get at least 8 to properly rest. Same with the weekend, you need one day for you and one for church. All overtime used to be double time, as an incentive for the employer to hire more people, so more people have jobs, and when they are working you so much that it's affecting your life, you are compensated for the difference. In time most places switched to time and a half, except for Sunday because working day on end forever really sucks.
These rules and more exist to try to help the employer and employee to have a set agreement for expectations, and to help show respect and work/ life balance. Now a days, these concepts seem bordering on insanity to some people, which honestly shows how much the working class has slipped over the years. Now, there's always gonna be the burning question if the grass is greener elsewhere. That's simply human nature, same as you thinking that there's better employees out there. Honestly, both are usually correct, but this is part of it.
At any moment they can leave, and if you are not a pos you would only either lay them off due to lack of work (or agreed upon circumstances) or have just cause to fire them. If that seems kinda one sided remember that you profit from their labor, not vice versa. As an employee your income is tied to your labor input, as an employer your income is tied to their labor, not requiring your labor. Basically the more guys you have, the more you would make. Of course this requires capital investment, but that's why you are the boss and get the lion's share.
Cory, it sounds like you are a very good boss, and you take care of your guys. You have provided the iron where they can make you a ton, and pay well enough that you could easily replace your current guys with other decent guys (the real reason why bosses pay a good wage). It sounds like you are still the climber, which until you have multiple crews honestly makes sense, because no one cares like you do, and frankly climbing is a highly skilled job that can make/ break the whole operation. That was awesome that you bought the guy a car, but at this point your options are to continue to ignore the situation or to simply confront him (my opinion, i would ignore it, especially if you signed the title to him).
I once asked a very successful business friend what was his trick, and he said that if you want to do better, ask yourself how could you serve more people and do it better. By thinking like that, you realise that only by trusting people and expanding equipment wise will you make more. Think mayer tree, there's no way he could do any physical work ever, honestly i bet he simply just buys equipment and deposits money, working overtime just to keep up
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Cory, where are you casting your potential employee net?
SeanKroll
Treehouser
In the 10 years of the Ninja, how many employees did you have, cumulatively?
Presuming that you don't make life dangerous, you offer a premium compensation for a small company.
Ask them what would motivate to move them faster, and how they'd feel about it.
Presuming that you don't make life dangerous, you offer a premium compensation for a small company.
Ask them what would motivate to move them faster, and how they'd feel about it.
I only worked for one outfit that paid OT after 8hrs and, as an employee, I highly recommend it. I felt more appreciated, had more incentive to finish up a job that got longer, etc. Honestly it did not add much onto the pay check and many weeks were kept under 40, but sure helped morale.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #25
Ninja had 3 good sidekicks in 10 years and a few others that escape my memory.
Yes, I'm going to ask and discuss. Btw, they were great today, go figure. One thing I didn't mention is moodiness. One guy, when he's up, life is good all around. When he's neutral, things are adequate. When he's in a bad mood, all shit just sucks. 33/33/33 %ages.
Took out a huge oak and big maple with the 55t, went like clockwork. I'm thinking, 'what was I so upset about?'
Good post, Sven, thanks for your input
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