Business owners, do you expect a potential employee to negotiate pay?

Kabir424

TreeHouser
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
168
Location
Alabama
I have a number of job offers from different companies with a range of pay because of the cost of living differences between locations. A couple of them I think could be better pay and I am expecting to see if those companies can make me a better offer. My question is a general one for all of you business owners who send job offers. Do you always send out a lower offer hoping the worker will take it but expecting to have to negotiate to a higher pay or are you offering your maximum every time with no real sense in negotiating? I want to do right by myself but I also don't want to offend or put off potential employers.

I have my ISA Arborist Certification, CTSP, Class B CDL with airbrakes and no restriction on manual transmission, hoisting license, and I have a great work history with great bosses who love to talk about my work history with them. I can climb all day long or operate lift devices all day long. Folks want me to work for them but I don't know culturally for our industry what folks are expecting regarding negotiating pay and I want to make sure I am being fairly compensated for my qualifications, experience, and work ethic.
 
We are probably not the norm but we ask what the potential employee what he/she needs to make. That is where our negotiations start. If it is to high, we will tell you that and then make an offer that works for our company.

If you want to make sure you are "being fairly compensated for your qualifications, experience and work ethic" you need to know what that is worth to you. That number might or might not work for the particular company but you need to know. :Like you said, factor in the cost of living ect.

Again, we are probably not the norm. Companies like Bartlet probably have a strict pay scale they work within.

Are you looking to leave Alabama? :/:
 
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I am not in Alabama anymore. It has been a while since I have posted and I haven't updated my info yet. I am in western MA and my driver's license and hoisting license are set up there right now.

One of my applications is with Bartlett and frankly their 1 year probationary period before you get paid time off is very off putting. The company is a consideration but they are low on my list right now just because of that condition. This is especially so during this time of COVID when I would have a mandatory 2 weeks off from work if I should contract it and much more so if I should have a serious case of it.

I do have my living expenses that I am aware of. My question more has to do with the fair compensation part and the average expectations within companies on negotiating pay. I know within the tech world people fully expect to negotiate their pay with thousands or tens of thousands of dollars difference. I don't know how that correlates to tree care companies.
 
If you’re not getting 40-55/hr in total compensation (wages + benefits) then tell em to go take a hike! You’d be better served mowing lawns for anything less
 
I’ll say from the start I only run a small biz, so put perspective on my opinion


Negotiations go both ways, fight your corner, if you’re worth more then ask for it, you’ve invested in your qualifications and abilities, if they want it then they pay what it’s worth.

Good luck.
 
A worker must prove themselves on the job before negotiations as to future wages.
I just tried out a guy who knows it all, but at the job failed.
 
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A worker must prove themselves on the job before negotiations as to future wages.
I just tried out a guy who knows it all, but at the job failed.

Everywhere I apply is at will work so they can fire me at anytime for any reason and I agree that if I am a terrible worker they should do so. My negotiations aren't for future wages. They are for "current" wages as a new hire at a company. My work history and job references help determine if my negotiations are justified. Your statement sounds like you only intend to hire people at a base pay and then after a certain period of time working there the employee can negotiate for pay. I would have no intention of going that route. I have enough self respect and confidence to work for companies meeting me halfway and then us parting ways if either of us isn't satisfied.
 
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If you’re not getting 40-55/hr in total compensation (wages + benefits) then tell em to go take a hike! You’d be better served mowing lawns for anything less

That helps a good bit to give me perspective on a range to consider. Thanks!
 
Just saying ... it’s dangerous work and you should be compensated accordingly - anything less wood be ................ uncivilized NEVER sell yourself short
 
Not as a full-time endeavor. Pick and choose my jobs. What are you getting at?
 
I think the implication is that you should stay in your lane.
Perhaps , but I’d prefer vharrison respond... the point I’m making is these large outfits (Bartlett, Assplunge, etc) seem to pay very meagerly when weighed against the hazards / dangers of the job. A guy/gal could go work at ARBYs for similar compensation and indulge in all the free roast beef sandwiches 🥪 he/she desires without being exposed to the possible dangers associated with... Translation: if I’m busting my fanny I’m getting greased , otherwise find another soldier. I worked for a local-yokel one time and after the tree was dropped my job was to buck the trunk into rounds while the other guy started from the top while the boss went and grabbed “coffee” ... I brought 2 ported saws with, 395xp and 461R and proceeded to devastate the job - bucked 60ft red oak into 18” pcs in less than 20minutes. When the owner returned with the coffee the other guy was still cutting and I was on the tailgate taking in some fresh air. The “boss” returned with coffee and proceeded to give me the wtf are you doing I’m paying you to cut not sit down on a tailgate any way shape or form routine . I stood up and pointed to the bucked pile and he walked over for a look see and couldn’t believe the job was completed in such short order. I got greased and left. (The other guy was STIHL cutting tops 😂)
 
Let’s be honest bucking up a trunk into firewood is easy work, basic stuff, as easy as it gets in this business.
20 minutes or 30 minutes makes little or no difference to the job.
 
It ain’t rocket science that’s for sure, but let’s be honest , how many guys that you bring on even OWN a saw let alone 395,461hotwoods ported Frankensaws? . You’d be amazed at the tree cos employees I worked with that didn’t know how to sharpen a chain , work on/maintain a saw etc and that’s because you get what you pay for ! If you pay top dollar you will get top talent , if you wanna pay peanuts then be prepared to get every drunk, dopehead and thief in the county! been there done that bro ... One guy would buy a new saw in feb and beat the livin piss out of it and sell in the fall 😂. 2 guys with Frankensaws and sharp chains will produce as much as 3 with stockers if not more! If your goal is a high hourly rate than the quicker/more efficiently you work the more you make per/hour, this is true for all endeavors. Now if you want to fart around and make a day of it that’s your prerogative
 
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Build a great video and photo resume, with your your letters/ videos of recommendations.

Ask for what you're worth.

See what they say.



I always ask what the person wants to earn.




Frans speaks the truth.
 
I’m worth 55+/hr with my gear ........ what’s that you say , cant pay that much? SEE YA... did I make that from jump street ? No I didn’t - had to go through the curve just like everyone else 😁
 
If you’re not getting 40-55/hr in total compensation (wages + benefits) then tell em to go take a hike! You’d be better served mowing lawns for anything less

No wonder it’s so hard to find a climber when you start your w2 employees at $110,000 a year. Your payroll liabilities sound rough.
 
Hard to find a superior climber/laborer when you offer them beans and rice 🍛 as compensation. They WILL have other options. The candidates you do “attract” by trying to “save money” are more often than not the “dregs of society” , liars , thieves, drunks, dopers and crackheads. If you can’t pay a wage commensurate with the dangers involved and knowledge/ equipment/skill set needed than you’re in the wrong occupation. I can go thru online classifieds and find tens of thousands of unfilled jobs - is it because of lack of skilled employees? Or maybe, just maybe it’s because the owner doesn’t want to PAY a fair / living wage and instead greedily hoards the profits all to himself !
 
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I almost hate to say this, but i have to agree with Frankie on this one. Different states have different costs of living, and ma is one of the highest. It's also very unionized as are most places that have high costs of living. Here it is straight from the prevailing wage rates, which can be found for all states online. While you might not get these rates if you are working non union, you at least get an idea of what people who live by you are paid for the same work. The first number is the money you see on the check, then they have how much for health insurance and how much for pension/ retirement investments. This way you can more easily figure out what is a good wage. For example if they have health insurance with no retirement then you would only subtract the health insurance portion from the number on the far right, which is the total package per hour. Yes, that means the actual dollar per hour total is just under 60 an hour for a journeyman tree guy.

Screenshot_20210218-184911_Drive.jpg


Here's the apprentice wage levels, so when the guy offers a very low rate, then you know exactly how insulting it actually is. Obviously residential work will be lower, but if you are doing municipal work there they are required by law to pay you according to this chart.

Screenshot_20210218-184845_Drive.jpg

Here's the other laborer rates.

Screenshot_20210218-184833_Drive.jpg
 
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All of this is a balancing act. If I ask outright for $45/hour plus benefits then they will tell me to pound sand and I can't really fault them. That would be overplaying my hand in our market. I don't want to ask too much. But, I also want to be fairly compensated. Kyle, thank you for posting that. That does help me understand the benefits a bit more.
 
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