Dulfersitz + friction knots?

[ScottThornley]

For the past couple days, I've been doing ascent and decent practice on a doubled rope. One thing I noticed is that just letting the Blakes's hitch unload makes for a kind of stop and go descent. So I tried descending using a Dulfersitz to generate the majority of friction, with the Blake's generating the balance, and acting as the backup. It seemed to allow for a very nice smooth descent, and takes all of 5 seconds or so to implement. Is this unheard of?

Regards,
Scott

 

[MasterBlaster]

A Dulfersitz is new to me.

 

[ScottThornley]

In my case, rather than the rope going between my legs, it went under my dangling butt cheeks from the left, then over my left shoulder. My left hand became the brake hand, and the right hand was minding the Blake's.

 

[hugashe]

wow i bet that gets hot in all the wrong places.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

I can get a perfect descent on a 1/2 inch Blakes. No need for the old Dulfersitz- noah used that for descending out the Ark.

 

[Frans]

Scott, how the climbing knot re-acts to you descent depends on what type of climbing line your using, and also if you are using an eye 'n eye cambium saver or pulley or natural crotch.
Sap also makes descents hard (unless the sap is hot and wet) and sap can make advancing the hitch darn near impossible.

Usually the Blake's hitch is pretty smooth. Are you using a split tail?

Any info would help to understand how, and why, your rope was acting that way to make you need to use this 'Dulfersitz' (translation: doubled seat?)

 

[SkwerI]

I agree with Hugashe. I also think that a person could quickly get in all kinds of trouble using that Dulfershitz or whatever it's called. One slip, one distraction, one bee sting and you're all twisted up hanging upside down with a bruised collarbone or broken leg or whatever.

One of my first lessons in rope handling when I started treework is:
"Never wrap a rope around any body part you aren't willing to lose".
This was intended for the ropeman when rigging down limbs, but is equally applicable to climbers.

I think I'll save this one in the "Do Not Do This" file.

 

[ScottThornley]

Frans,

False crotch, split tail, new rope. Would that be the magic combo for sudden stops and starts? Would perhaps adding a fifth wrap around the climbing rope help? Or is it purely that my technique needs improvement?

One other thing, my bridge is much longer than those I've seen pictured, the shorter bridges just didn't seem all that natural at the time. Is this another possible cause?

As for friction on the body, sure. You never want to dulfersitz nekkid

Regards,
Scott

 

[squisher]

I don't climb alot but when I do I mostly use a Blakes still, play around a bit with a VT but in a work situation seem to always resort to the Blakes. I find it relatively smooth for descending but a pita for ascending(pulling slack through). Adding another step or system with your Dulfersitz just seems to be overcomplicating things to me. KISS.

 

[Old Monkey]

If I had to guess I would say its how you dress the knot that is giving you problems Scott. After you tie the Blake's you need to tune it up to your weight and to the rope a bit by dressing or tightening the knot a bit. Its not something you can show someone, its something they have to play with and learn on their own.

For the record that is how I learned to rappel. We called it body rappelling and did it with very stretchy goldline rope, pants, thick chamois shirt and unfortunately, no gloves.

 

[Frans]

Frans,

False crotch, split tail, new rope. Would that be the magic combo for sudden stops and starts? Would perhaps adding a fifth wrap around the climbing rope help? Or is it purely that my technique needs improvement?

Do you have anyone in your area who could teach you? Sierra foothills, hummm. Where, exactly?
check this web site out. www.cal-arb-association.com.

We just had another climbing skills workshop. I spent alot of time going over just these kinds of questions. Show and tell all day long.
I have much better luck in showing to answer these types of questions. My thoughts about the rope are that new ropes are slick, natural crotches have more friction, more wraps on any climbing knot make more friction.

Kind of tired right now, keep asking questions tho. Maybe some pictures of your set up?

One other thing, my bridge is much longer than those I've seen pictured, the shorter bridges just didn't seem all that natural at the time. Is this another possible cause?

Only in the sense that you have to reach for the climbing knot farther. Less control, maybe.

 

[rbtree]

Hah, I showed one of my crew the Dulfersitz not long ago.....with no knot backup, of course...and only a 10 foot descent or so....

Love the artwork. I used to do tree work for the artist for the book "Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills" that drawing is taken from. Been so long, I'm forgetting his name...but not how pretty his daughter was. Of course, I could get up off my fat arse and go open my old edition, from the early '70's.....

 

[Eric H-L]

In my case, rather than the rope going between my legs, it went under my dangling butt cheeks from the left, then over my left shoulder. My left hand became the brake hand, and the right hand was minding the Blake's.

I found an article that mentions this illustrator, Bob Cram, as well as an early introduction of the Dulfersitz to the Seattle climbing community.

Retro Rewind | The Evolution of Freedom: A Look Back at The Mountaineers Seminal Climbing Book

In this piece from Mountaineer magazine we explore the history of Freedom of the Hills, and what additions the 9th edition brings to this classic mountaineering title.

www.mountaineers.org

 

[flushcut]

I am not sure why anyone would want to descend this way, or use the castration devise called a Swiss Seat.