Chain Gauge

[Adam_P]

This might be a dumb question, but what difference does chain gauge make on a saw? Why would you want .063 over .050, or vice versa?

Most of my saws are 3/8" .050 but I have one that's .325 .063 I believe. I only have one bar for it and I'll probably get a 3/8" .050 bar and sprocket for it so I can get a bunch of 3/8" .050 chain and make my own loops.

Just curious as to why they make different gauges of chain with the same pitch.

 

[Al Smith]

It's a regional thing . From what they say .058 is popular in Australia while for the most part not so in most of North America . Seems the .325 by .063 is a west coast thing .

Most of what little .404 is used in this area is .063 but they made the stuff in .050 and .058 which are both rare to find now of days .That 48 " bar on that big Homelite in my avatar uses .404 by .058 .I've probabley amassed enough chain to make 10 loops at 143 drivers each if I ever need any more .I bought the very last of it from Baileys a few years back in Carlton chisel skip .I doubt seriously if that will ever happen though on a saw that only gets used every couple of years .

 

[Magnus]

Strongest argument I see is lubrication and cooling.

In dry wood and hard wood the .050 tend to over heat were the .058 holds its temps better.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Magnus might clarify, but i suspect there is a somewhat higher chain speed with the thinner gauge, one plus.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Good thread, good question!

 

[Magnus]

Chain speed is the same as the shape of drivers, sprocket/rim etc is the same.
Hight, pitch all is the same except the width of drive link and groove.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I was thinking that there is less weight with the thinner gauge, so faster speed. Maybe it doesn't amount to enough to be significant.

 

[brendonv]

Good question. It all used to be so confusing to me. I think I found an Oregon ad that helped me figure out what's what. Now I run 3/8 050 on everything, just makes life simple.

 

[HolmenTree]

Let's use Stihl 3/8" sawchain in .050 for example. The bottom of the drive link in the bar groove is .050, at the top between the chain side links it's .063 . But the gauge of todays bar noses are all .063, I have watched a .050 chain rotating on a .063 bar nose while cutting wood at slow motion on a high speed camera. The chain at that point of the bar flops arounds quite badly so the action is not perfect.
So a .063 b/c setup is a better thing.
Oregon in .050 on the hand is only .058 at the side links so the .008 difference is more stable in the cut then the .013 difference is with the Stihl chain. A .058 Oregon b/c is even better with only a .005 difference. Plus the Oregon chain cuts a narrower kerf for more chainspeed.

Yes it is a regional thing. In our area of Canada and the eastern seaboard of the US Husqvarna /Jonsered run .058, Stihl runs .050 The market is corraled. But Stihl is out to make money though, for years they have made .058 Stihl chain for the Husky owners.

 

[treesmith]

I've often pondered why someone would want to run a thicker, and thereby heavier chain. I have also wondered if, once a bar was a little worn, if running .058 chain in a .050 bar would eliminate the slop, rather than having to use a bar rail closer. Never tried it, mind you, just thought about it. Anyone see a problem doing that?

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I had a .325 (not 3/8s =.375) on and 026, which was strange for PNW. Was told it was an east coast set-up.

We run .404 at 'work' with 441, 460, 660, 880. Supposed to be stronger for the pull of the bigger saws, and because we hit so many nails. Supposed to be less likely to break with the impact. Dunno.

Personally, I run all .375/ 050, except my used Stihl 064 came with .404.

 

[HolmenTree]

I've often pondered why someone would want to run a thicker, and thereby heavier chain. I have also wondered if, once a bar was a little worn, if running .058 chain in a .050 bar would eliminate the slop, rather than having to use a bar rail closer. Never tried it, mind you, just thought about it. Anyone see a problem doing that?

The problem is a worn out bar with spread bar rails is the spread is at the top but not near the bottom of the groove. The .058 drive link would pinch at the bottom of the groove.

 

[HolmenTree]

We run .404 at 'work' with 441, 460, 660, 880. Supposed to be stronger for the pull of the bigger saws, and because we hit so many nails. Supposed to be less likely to break with the impact. Dunno.

The .404 is an excellent setup for a work saw over 72-80cc. The heavier chain stretches alot less then 3/8. The bigger drive links are more stable in the bar groove. Alot more filing life plus edge holding durability.
Only negative is the extra price.

 

[treesmith]

I thought about that, Willard, but I figured that by the time the rails were that worn, even the bottom of the groove would be worn 8 thousandths.

I run .325-.050 on my 290, but everything else is 3/8-.050.

 

[HolmenTree]

I thought about that, Willard, but I figured that by the time the rails were that worn, even the bottom of the groove would be worn 8 thousandths.

By the time the bar is that worn out the top of the groove would be too wide and sloppy. Your chain would cut that "on-off" action in the cut.
You need square clearances between rails and drive link.

 

[treesmith]

Any of y'all ever use one of those bar rail closers? I have one, but have only used it once.

I did rig up a grinder to square my rails from time to time.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I've used the bar rail closer on our 'work' bars. Canola maybe isn't so good on big bars, but we are required to use it, which I'm fine with. Might contribute to more heat build-up and splaying of the rails. Closing them down helped, with that aptly described 'on-off' action. Been thinking of picking up a bar rail closer for myself.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=W 10001

http://www.madsens1.com/PDF/Bar_Rail_Closer_(BRC)_Instructions.pdf

 

[HolmenTree]

Hammering the bar rails on a flat anvil with a shim in the groove works the best. The hammering puts the "memory" of the rails back into square. Squeezing even with a 40 ton press doesn't do the same and the rails spread quickly again.

Hammering also straightens out bent bars real nice too. Just doesn't work on the throw away laminated bars though.
Hammering has been around forever. Check out the saw filers at some of the sawmills in your area. It's an art.

 

[Magnus]

I was thinking that there is less weight with the thinner gauge, so faster speed. Maybe it doesn't amount to enough to be significant.

It isn't much different in weight on 50-60 drivers.

Let's use Stihl 3/8" sawchain in .050 for example. The bottom of the drive link in the bar groove is .050, at the top between the chain side links it's .063 .

This is not always the case.

But the gauge of todays bar noses are all .063, I have watched a .050 chain rotating on a .063 bar nose while cutting wood at slow motion on a high speed camera. The chain at that point of the bar flops arounds quite badly so the action is not perfect.
So a .063 b/c setup is a better thing.

This is not always the case...

Oregon in .050 on the hand is only .058 at the side links so the .008 difference is more stable in the cut then the .013 difference is with the Stihl chain. A .058 Oregon b/c is even better with only a .005 difference. Plus the Oregon chain cuts a narrower kerf for more chainspeed.

I think you refer to Super 20 chain were the 20 (,050) is cut under tie strap were it is ,058 above like the 21.
95VPX drivelink is .050 all the way...

Yes it is a regional thing. In our area of Canada and the eastern seaboard of the US Husqvarna /Jonsered run .058, Stihl runs .050 The market is corraled. But Stihl is out to make money though, for years they have made .058 Stihl chain for the Husky owners.

Here Elux want us to use .050 on all. Stihl want us to use .063 on the 50cc+ the rest .050

.050 isn't working well here....

 

[Adam_P]

Sweet thread. That's way more info than I was expecting!

That being said I'm not sure if I'm more knowledgeable now or more confused. ha.

Why are all bar noses .063?

I'll likely go with 3/8 .050 for the same reason as Brendon but maybe with an oregon bar because it's slightly tighter. Willard, where'd you find those bar measurements?

 

[HolmenTree]

This is not always the case.

This is not always the case...

I think you refer to Super 20 chain were the 20 (,050) is cut under tie strap were it is ,058 above like the 21.
95VPX drivelink is .050 all the way...

That being said I'm not sure if I'm more knowledgeable now or more confused. ha.

Why are all bar noses .063?

Willard, where'd you find those bar measurements?

Geez Magnus ,now I gotta one finger type all this because I didn't write all inclusive information with a long drawn out post:roll
-OK I wasn't referring to 3/8 Picco chain in .043 or .050 ,just what the majority run in 3/8 [.375] sawchain in .050,.058 and .063 [big 3/8].
-No I wasn't referring to .325 chain like the 20 series or narrow kerf 95VPX,I was referring to Oregon 72,73, LG or LP sawchain[Husqvarna H42-H48], re-read my post I was comparing to Stihl 3/8. Like I said "I watched a .050 chain rotate over a .063 bar nose".
-Standard "Replaceable "bar noses today are .063, I'm not talking about laminated bar noses [yes I should have wrote except laminated bars.] But my post stating .050 bar groove with .063 bar nose should have explained that the bar is a solid body with detachable nose..

 

[HolmenTree]

Willard, where'd you find those bar measurements?

Adam, to add to my last post......where do I get these bar measurements?
Well let me explain
I field tested the original Oregon 72-73 LG sawchain [now LGX or Husqvarna H48] in 1980, chain was introduced on the market in 1982.
A few years later I field tested the first prototype Oregon radial port rim sprockets [which Oregon makes for Stihl today] and also the first prototype Oregon PowerMatch bar noses.
In 1989 Stihl Ltd hired me as a technical services manager which I did promotion,warranty and field testing work for.
In my timbersport days I would put 40 hrs or more into building a race sawchain.

BTW Magnus wasn't old enough to remember when the first year Electrolux air injection saws were introduced

 

[HolmenTree]

Again! to add to my last post
I never thought I would have to go this low,but I have been called a liar before.......so if I lose a little respect for this who cares?
Read this inter-office memo from my old boss Steve Meriam in 1989, who today is Stihl Inc.'s national manager for sales and product development at Virgina Beach.

 

[Magnus]

Adam, to add to my last post......where do I get these bar measurements?
Well let me explain
I field tested the original Oregon 72-73 LG sawchain [now LGX or Husqvarna H48] in 1980, chain was introduced on the market in 1982.
A few years later I field tested the first prototype Oregon radial port rim sprockets [which Oregon makes for Stihl today] and also the first prototype Oregon PowerMatch bar noses.
In 1989 Stihl Ltd hired me as a technical services manager which I did alot of promotion,warranty and field testing work for.
In my timbersport days I would put 40 hrs or more into building a race sawchain.

BTW Magnus wasn't old enough to remember when the first year Electrolux air injections were introduced

HA!

Had a ruff week, Willard?

Oregons Super 20 and Super 70 have two drivers, one .058 and one .063. The .058 is cut to make .050 in groove so frame is the same, but in a narrow groove.
Not calling anyone a liar, I don't know you that well.
It could be you are typing wrong or just miss informed too. Most company tell what they want us to know mostly, that does not mean that is how it is.
I don't sell HVA pruducts, but Oregon I sell and have except for bars, there I sell Iggesund.

 

[Al Smith]

I've got old 10 series Mac bars in both .050 and .058 .A bar I ran yesterday at the GTG was originally .404 by .050 until I changed the sprocket nose to .375 .32" Windsor 10 series mount on an 805 Mac which pulled it very nicely I might add .

It's hard to actually say where or why the .404 in that size because I have never seen it used in these parts .I can only assume it to be originally a west coast bar .