Canola and chain brake function

[Tim_B.]

I'll give you a little advice here from my logging camp days.
If you rely on a chainsaw to make a living, maintain it. In our camp we had a shop to work on our saws after supper. Work bench, a little aerosol solvent and a air compressor blow gun will keep your saw like new for a long time.

First, this is a really great thread; just loving it.

HolmenTree, thanks for sharing this vignette of your life as a logger; it is very instructive. As a guy who's pretty new to chainsaw work, can you tell me if it's necessary to "block" or protect any parts that are under those covers from being touched by the aerosol solvent? Or is it the kind of deal where you are inspecting and cleaning the gear so often that any of the softer parts are likely to be replaced by you anyway, long before they have a chance to be affected by the use of a solvent? Thanks in advance for any answer you choose to give.

Also, just in case I haven't said it before, it is really good to have you back on this forum. Your experience and knowledge is greatly appreciated.

Tim

 

[Tim_B.]

I strive for once a week Eric. The other crews not so much. Once you do it a few times it only takes 15 minutes or so a saw. I don't use any type of degreaser. Just an air compressor and tools to tear it down. I do a real deep tear down once a year but it's still not a complete disassembly.
We've had problems with the chain brakes using regular b&c when the saws haven't been cleaned regularly.

Thanks for this post, treebilly. To me this means that it is the lack of routine maintenance that is the primary issue with the chain brake not functioning properly, although the use of bio oils might speed things up a bit if they seem to coagulate more than standard bar and chain oil.

I guess the key is to actually build time into the schedule for the routine maintenance that needs to be done.

One climber on another forum talked about it the same way that Holmen does; as an evening pursuit, after dinner. He said that tinkering in the shop, maintaining his gear was a relaxing activity for him. Not as relaxing as loafing on the couch watching TV, he said, but not the same waste of time, either.

I guess the "warm, fuzzy" reward comes into play when you are out in the field trying to use your gear, and everything works as it should, instead of making you want to swear and tear your hair out.

I can see how that fact would make saw maintenance almost an act of meditation.

I hope I don't sound like too much of a Loon, right now.

Tim

 

[woodslinger]

Working part time I would guess my saw cleaning works out to roughly the equivalent of weekly cleaning for most full time arbs, and I enjoy the confidence I have in my equipment after I've tinkered with them for the evening. I really don't mind the time it takes me to clean them out, check/touch-up chains, check and flip bars, etc. It does kinda give me that warm & fuzzy feeling knowing that I have checked over and taken care of the tools I rely on most.
On the saw maint subject, I've always blown out air filters but I saw something somewhere that said not to do that on saw filters, just replace them. Any recommendations on that?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Whoever said that sounds like a filter salesman!

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Don't stretch the filter element with high pressure air.

Gently clean them.

 

[SimplyArbor]

I just give em a gas bath.

 

[HolmenTree]

Thanks for all the kudos for what information I try to explain clearly.
Air filters I wash in a used zip lock bag from my lunch kit. Filter in the sealed bag with warm water and dish soap. Shake it good then rinse the filter under a water tap. Throw it on the truck dash to dry over night or hang it overnight with your work clothes. Blowing them out with high pressure air blows out the flock or other parts of the filter elements. Gas can dissolve the flock element glue. Some nylon mesh filters aren't bother by gasoline.
WD40 cleans out the innards under the sprocket cover, I've never had it hurt the crankcase seal. Then a coating of Fluid Film on the chain brake mechanisms work great. There is no solvents in Fluid Film they claim.
I had a 346XP once that got a damaged clutch side crankcase seal. Upon inspection it looked like a build up of hardened canola oil was stuck to the crankshaft stub and that may have damaged the seal. So make sure to remove the clutch at least once a year to clean underneath around the seal too. A little Fluid sprayed there will protect that area. Fluid Film claims it won't hurt oil resistant seals.

 

[Tim_B.]

Willard, thanks for the answer to my question about the use of solvent under the sprocket cover, and for naming the product (WD-40), in particular. Thanks also for the mention of Fluid Film. This thread may be the first place I've ever seen it mentioned. It is nice to know about the products that veterans like yourself trust and rely on.

Thanks again for your contributions to this forum.

Tim

 

[HolmenTree]

It's great I could offer some advice Tim.
This is a great place to share with alright. Other forums there's a troll waiting around every corner ready to leap on someone to undermine what ever good intentions were being said
Back to my 346XP with the damaged seal. The saw sat for about 3 years and I forgot to clean underneath the oiler worm gear. Of course after that length of time the canola oil petrified on the crank then may have damaged or made a rough uneven seal on the seal lips.
I have hung chains up on a nail that were used with canola and after a few years the chain is all seized up at every link.
Soak it for a minute in varosol and it's like new again
Fluid Film is good for protecting chains stored in high humidity areas.
Even spray a shot on the chain while it's on the saw. Stuff stays liquid even after sitting for years .Doesn't evaporate

 

[woodslinger]

Thanks for the info guys

 

[bstewert]

I'll give you a little advice here from my logging camp days.
If you rely on a chainsaw to make a living, maintain it. In our camp we had a shop to work on our saws after supper. Work bench, a little aerosol solvent and a air compressor blow gun will keep your saw like new for a long time.

I agree with this. Also feel it's easier/faster to do maintenance if I keep up with it, rather than letting it get too far behind.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I run mostly older saws. I keep them clean so that they don't look too bad ... have a quick routine for doing it. I've got a lot of tools plus a well equipped shop full of mostly machinery that I rebuilt, but I think that few would mistake me for a rich kid. I think about the only things that I have ever bought new are my hand tools and tig welder. There was also my 880 until the recent fire melted it. A lot to stay on top of maintenance wise, buy I try. I like the feeling when everything is in good order, the place kind of hums and invites to working, same with the saws. In the shop, usually sweep up before going home even if it's late. I think it's a personality thing though, no hard fast connection to keeping stuff clean and doing good work. Within reason that is. Been in a lot of shops and seen many ways.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sad about the 880...

 

[woodworkingboy]

Ya. If I could find a used one I can probably use the piston and cylinder from my burned up one. I haven't brought myself to look at the insides, but a friend took a gander and said they appeared ok. Maybe the carb is too. All the plastic is toast and my aluminum mill that was attached to the saw half disappeared. I'd just worked on the thing to get it ship shaped. Fires suck.

 

[Tim_B.]

It's great I could offer some advice Tim.
This is a great place to share with alright. Other forums there's a troll waiting around every corner ready to leap on someone to undermine what ever good intentions were being said
Back to my 346XP with the damaged seal. The saw sat for about 3 years and I forgot to clean underneath the oiler worm gear. Of course after that length of time the canola oil petrified on the crank then may have damaged or made a rough uneven seal on the seal lips.
I have hung chains up on a nail that were used with canola and after a few years the chain is all seized up at every link.
Soak it for a minute in varosol and it's like new again
Fluid Film is good for protecting chains stored in high humidity areas.
Even spray a shot on the chain while it's on the saw. Stuff stays liquid even after sitting for years .Doesn't evaporate

Another great post, Willard, thanks for all of that. Especially the tip about using the Fluidfilm on the chains while still on the saw. Great idea, and easier to do while everything is out and exposed. Much appreciated.

Tim

 

[Tim_B.]

I run mostly older saws. I keep them clean so that they don't look too bad ... have a quick routine for doing it. I've got a lot of tools plus a well equipped shop full of mostly machinery that I rebuilt, but I think that few would mistake me for a rich kid. I think about the only things that I have ever bought new are my hand tools and tig welder. There was also my 880 until the recent fire melted it. A lot to stay on top of maintenance wise, buy I try. I like the feeling when everything is in good order, the place kind of hums and invites to working, same with the saws. In the shop, usually sweep up before going home even if it's late. I think it's a personality thing though, no hard fast connection to keeping stuff clean and doing good work. Within reason that is. Been in a lot of shops and seen many ways.

Also sorry to hear about the loss of your 880 saw. I had not heard about your fire. I'm glad and hopeful that nobody was seriously injured.

None of my business, but if you are willing to discuss it I would be interested in hearing whether or not the cause of the fire had been figured out. I guess I try to gather stories like this by way of learning from cautionary tales.

It's ok if you don't want to talk about it, though.

I hope the financial loss was not too great, either.

Tim

 

[woodworkingboy]

Financial loss, well i thought the electrician stung me a bit, one of those things, a person recommended by a friend of a friend. I stopped him in the middle and finished it myself, or it could have been worse. I dunno, around four grand to get back in shape, plus the time. That doesn't include the big saw and my melted Sperber chain mill. The cause...all I want to say is that i let some wires get too hot because i stepped out for a bit. It's not something that would happen in the normal course of common events. I did learn about other fire cause possibilities from the fire inspectors, like dust build up at breakers and sockets, especially where there are loose connections. Something to be wary of that I spoke of earlier. No injuries fortunately, other that I burned my hand a little getting some burning furniture blankets outside. Messed up my mind for a number of days, which lead to an unpleasant argument with my wife.

I'm cautious about fire, keep my wood shop cleaner than most because i do some welding and grinding in there as well. Just shows that you can't be too careful.

 

[emr]

So since I started this thread we have switched to conventional bar oil and our saws seem to be even dirtier than ever. I am not exactly sure of what kind of bar oil we have since I didn't buy it and we pour it into a Draino bottle to use in the field.... but I'm wondering if higher quality bar oils seem to be easier to clean? Or do the better ones have additives which keep the oil on the bar and on the engine, which make it more difficult to clean? Right now, I'm about ready to go back to Canola. Oh the dilemma!!!!

 

[HolmenTree]

Husqvarna and Stihl sell about the best petroleum bar oil on the market. Not even dyed anymore .One less carcinogen.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I would think that all oil sold as bar oil has an anti sling additive or what gets called tack content, to help keep it on the bar and chain. Otherwise, what would make it bar oil?

 

[HolmenTree]

I'm not a chemist Jay but from using saws most of my life what makes bar oil is stability and flow weights.
To day in my neck of the woods summer grade bar oil won't pour out of the jug.
When you rely on production with a saw things have to work with you.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Willard, those must be considerations. I found this page on Gulf bar oil, and it gives a pretty thorough breakdown of the product. I used to purchase something from Standard Oil that may have been similar. I went into one of their depots one day and asked if they had a product that would work as a bar oil. I can't remember if the person there knew anything about chainsaws, so I may have had to say what the purpose of the oil was. He told me I wanted an oil with a tack content and recommended a product that was sold only by a product number, nothing fancy smantzy like named "bar oil". I could get it in small drums and it was much cheaper than anything marketed directly for chainsaw use. I used it for a number of years and it worked just fine I thought. That still might be a way to get cheap bar oil, by going directly to a petroleum products producer and explaining your needs. I really liked purchasing the oil that way, driving a little out of town to the depot. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the stuff marketed as bar oil, is little more than a marked up oil product that isn't produced specifically for chainsaw use, but somebody capitalises on the higher price by marketing it that way. There are lots of different oil blends for industrial applications that the general public knows nothing about.

http://nu-tierbrands.com/pdfs/msds/Gulf High Tack Bar and Chain Oil.pdf

 

[Raj]

I did learn about other fire cause possibilities from the fire inspectors, like dust build up at breakers and sockets, especially where there are loose connections. Something to be wary of that I spoke of earlier.

Not to derail too much. A loose electrical connection, especially with contaminates will burn, turn to carbon, carbon is a conductor, but does draw a measurable current, adding amps to the entire circuit, which can greatly over heat an operating motor, and I mean greatly to the point of being able to ignite materials.

 

[Tim_B.]

Financial loss, well i thought the electrician stung me a bit, one of those things, a person recommended by a friend of a friend. I stopped him in the middle and finished it myself, or it could have been worse. I dunno, around four grand to get back in shape, plus the time. That doesn't include the big saw and my melted Sperber chain mill. The cause...all I want to say is that i let some wires get too hot because i stepped out for a bit. It's not something that would happen in the normal course of common events. I did learn about other fire cause possibilities from the fire inspectors, like dust build up at breakers and sockets, especially where there are loose connections. Something to be wary of that I spoke of earlier. No injuries fortunately, other that I burned my hand a little getting some burning furniture blankets outside. Messed up my mind for a number of days, which lead to an unpleasant argument with my wife.

I'm cautious about fire, keep my wood shop cleaner than most because i do some welding and grinding in there as well. Just shows that you can't be too careful.

With regard to wires getting too hot, it sounds like the circuit might not be fused properly, just off the cuff. Sometimes it is possible or advisable to install a fuse holder in-line with a piece of equipment to help protect both the equipment and the circuit, and to make it easier to access and replace the fuse that is protecting the piece of equipment. I own a little portable tire inflator air pump that plugs into a cigarette lighter, and the plug itself contains a fuse that will blow if the pump tries to pull to much current out of my car's electrical system. The plug can just be spun open to remove, inspect or replace the cylindrical little fuse that is contained within. It is a really nice, convenient setup.

Probably not likely that you would want to do this, but another thing you could do by way of inspecting and maintaining the electrical system would be to buy an infra-red "heat" gun, which is a test instrument you could use to look for "hot-spots" in an electrical panel or around some electrical outlets or pieces of equipment. It is more commonly used at the electrical panels, in order to try to find the places within the panel where loose connections may be causing things to heat up more than they should. I have never had to perform these types of inspections myself, just thought I would mention the existance of the tool.

Also, I'm hoping you have fire extinguishers at the ready, because of the combination of welding and grinding operations, along with a lot of wood all around.

On the construction jobs I've been on, a fire watch is required to be maintained for a minimum of one hour after the cessation of any welding operations.

Sorry the electrician was so expensive.

Thanks for listening; I hope I haven't irritated you with all of this.

Tim

 

[woodworkingboy]

Not at all, Tim, good information. I try to do anything that causes sparks early in the day, so I'm around for a number of hours after. I don't like seeing sparks go rolling under things where I know that there is dust...or even no dust. Ideally, I would want a whole separate building for doing metal work. I'm very paranoid of fire now, have a little routine I go through to check on things before heading home. I even flip the 100 volt main breaker now, used to be only the 200. Like the idea of the "heat gun". Wonder where to find something like that.

Peter, I had a nice chat with the fire inspectors, talking about the causes of shop fires. As you say, loose connections are a big one. Grinders throwing sparks is apparently another.