Barber chair

[woodworkingboy]

Had a situation come up today, where a relatively large pine was off it's stump and leaning against a Chestnut. The only way i could flop it was to cut the chestnut, whose limb was badly bowed from the weight. I knew the Chestnut was going to barber chair, and it seemed like no matter how I cut it.

I put a very small face in and popped it from the back, trying to stay as far away as possible. The result is over in the work picture's thread I just posted, barber chair with a capital B. I expected it and got out fast...it worked out OK. I was confused a bit as how to cut the holding tree in a situation like this. I don't think it wise to cut it like a heavy head leaner, where in this case due to the extreme weight, boring in behind the hinge is likely going to blow the whole thing apart and also probably trap the saw.

Should have probably chained the tree if I had a chain at the job...that's all I can think of.

Can you guys offer any advice? Thanks.

Jay

 

[MasterBlaster]

Other than binding it? Gotta 48" bar?

 

[SkwerI]

Read Burnham's thread about the Coos Bay cut.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I guess you mean that you ought to be backing up when cutting. Yep, I hear that.

 

[woodworkingboy]

No Coos Bay in this situation, is my logic. I think the options are limited.

 

[lumberjack]

The last time I had a heavily loaded tree, I dropped a 30" pine into a 10-12" pine that I didn't see. It was plenty far away to allow a stupendus amount of tension to be built up in the wood.

I cut a notch that might have been 1" deep, if that (saw was already starting to bind). I touched the backside of the tree with the saw wide open and then ran like hell.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[sotc]

so hard to tell in pics whats going on

 

[woodworkingboy]

All good responses so far

 

[NeTree]

I try to avoid the RLH method by stuffing a tiny notch in, and then boring in quarters from about 2" behind the hinge outward.

 

[GASoline71]

Coos Bay cut all the way Jay... Was in the same kinda situation awhile back... A big Hemlock leanin' on a fairly good sized Alder...

Worked flawlessly.

Gary

 

[stig]

One way to avoid getting your bar pinched while boring the tree is to use the somewhat unorthodox tecnique of boring first, then making the undercut.
On heavy leaners with soft , easily compressable wood, this tecnique can be a way out.
Bore through the tree in the middle of the trunk, then make the undercut. Take care not to get pinched by making 2-3 parrallel cuts. Make sure to make the undercut close enough to the borecut, that the hinge doesn't get too thick. When the undercut is in, fall the tree from the backside.
Of course you have to be ready to get the hell out of Dodge, when the backstrap goes, but the tree won't barberchair.

 

[Bounce]

I like MB's idea better. Reminds me of the chapter in Gerry's book on how to top trees using explosives. More fun for sure!

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks guys....guess I'm underestimating the amount of wood that will keep the tree from splitting apart if boring through. NeTree's bore with delicacy sounds good.

Stig, I think that in most cases, a heavy head leaner doesn't have near the tension of a tree heavy loaded with another big one, but obviously there are exceptions. Like Carl mentioned as well, in dealing with the chetnut, it wanted to pinch the bar after a face cut of about an inch, was just on the borderline of splitting apart on it's own accord without help from a saw. I was thinking, well maybe if I just look at it long enough that would happen.

After reading the posts, I'd be willing to try boring in behind the face if a similar situation comes up....make a good study.

I do like the Coos Bay for head leaners...great method.

 

[SkwerI]

I think I'd be much less hesitant to nip the sides (Coos Bay) with no notch rather than trying to bore out the center of a notch trying to pinch.

 

[JIML]

24" bar, get it started, one hand on the saw, the other already leaving the scene... head for the hills!

 

[GASoline71]

I think I'd be much less hesitant to nip the sides (Coos Bay) with no notch rather than trying to bore out the center of a notch trying to pinch.

I usually use the Coos Bay with a notch...

Gary

 

[Gord]

another option is to beavertail the sides, kinda of coos bay method I guess. I watched it used with success on this hangup.

 

[lumberjack]

Nice picture.

To me, that's more of a conventional notch with the quarter cuts that Eric and you mentioned mentioned, since a Coos doesn't have the conventional hinge, and that should follow the hinge fairly closely.

It does look like that would take the benefits of the Coos (more wood so it's stronger in compression/less likely to pinch) and make it more palatable of an option when more precision is required, but can't leave a back strap due to compression.

 

[NeTree]

Gord, thanks for the pic.. .that was exactly what I was referring to by boring in quarters.

 

[woodworkingboy]

The three stacked trees is a cool photo....shet happens

Gord's drawing looks like a good method. I don't know that I'd be inclined to sock the bar into the back-cut. I understand the get it cut quick, thought, but it just might be good to nip at it from the back with the forward part of the bar, if the tree is almost ready to break from the weight.

I think a difference between a heavy leaner, and a loaded from the back one, is that a leaner is going to be increasing tension on the back as it starts to fall...more fall = greater tension = possible barber chair beginning.

With a loaded tree, the tension is already maxed out pretty much, before you start to cut. If you sock the bar in, you might not be in the best position if the barber chair starts...both human and saw.

 

[stig]

Gord. that method is similar to the scandinavian so called "golden triangle"
You make two undercuts on the forward faces instead of boring them out.
Then you cut the remaining triangle of wood from behind.
It works like the Coos bay, but here the advantage is that as you cut forward the wood holding the tree is reduced rapidly because of ist triangular shape.
We use that one one big hardwoods that have been knocked into a heavy lean by a storm.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Which way does the tree fall?

 

[lumberjack]

To the right.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The dickins you say.