pete mctree
Treehouser
Not pleasant but a valid and graphic reminder why
http://www.isa-arboriculture.org/content/cm000181.htm
http://www.isa-arboriculture.org/content/cm000181.htm
Why not quit using doubled ropes for ascent once and for all?
SRT is MUCH easier to add backups and second attachment points.
Why not quit using doubled ropes for ascent once and for all?
SRT is MUCH easier to add backups and second attachment points.
Wait... so now doubled rope access is unsafe? C'mon Tom that's just waaay over the top. ANY ascent system should be backed up and had the climber in the article done that this wouldn't even be a discussion. It takes about 30 seconds to backup a pair of ascenders.Why not quit using doubled ropes for ascent once and for all?
SRT is MUCH easier to add backups and second attachment points.
Shoot, the Corvair and Pinto were taken out of production because they were unsafe, why not doubled rope access too? Dang, I'm getting weary of reading about these accidents![]()
You opened the doorTom=but we will continue to discuss the topic
really?My position on SRT vs. DdRT is plenty clear,
Accidents like this always bring out the heat. There will be plenty of finger pointing and "should have dones". I'm just glad he's ok.[SRT access depends on a branch or union twice as strong as DdRT... that would be an anchor point that you can't inspect until you get there. I'll take the safety of half the stress on my anchor over forgetting to backup my ascenders any day.
I'm thinking 'bout it. Have to check my schedule. I suppose you want more wine, thats why your asking?How about coming up to Boise for the PNW conference in Sept. I'll be doing an SRT class there.
No doubt, and I've read and listened to what you have to say.My position on SRT vs. DdRT is plenty clear, no reason to go back and run it all out again.
The cord IS the backup, the primary is hands and feet... hence secured footlock vs. unsecured footlock.A cord/friction hitch as used in the FL in the TCC is not backed up at all. And don't even get going on the belay...that's in the TCC only. Does anyone use a belay for ascent?
Agreed.It isn't about ascenders vs. hitches either. There are some systems of both that have consistently shown that they're inferior. Why continue to use them? Because they're convenient. Substitute the Dualcender for the Kong's and there would be less accidents/injuries.
Treeclimbers are the only rope access group that uses DdRT for some very good and unique reasons. That doesn't make SRT dangerous in trees though.
Same here, but you cannot KNOW a TIP is bombproof from the ground before ascending, halving the load is a nice extra safety margin... a big conifer for instance.If a climber is concerned that the TIP can only hold a 2:1 load then they're climbing on a too small TIP. The TIP has to be bomb proof! I've had first person discussions with climbers who have had TIPs on DdRT break out even after bounce testing...myself included. Bruises but no injuries fortunately.
Maybe... but I don't see how backed up ascenders on a double are less dependable than SRT, the moving rope isn't a factor using knots for the backup.Of course, doubled rope access can be backed up. It is much less complex to back up SRT though. And the backups are more dependable since there's no worry about a moving rope.
Granted and I respect that. From my perspective you are the authority when it comes to SRT in tree climbing... but I fail to see how DdRT is unsafe and comparable to cars that explode when you hit'em.I know that I'm a loud [mouth...hehehe] voice for SRT. This isn't something that I've come to lately. This is almost 20 years of personal research, evolution, discussion and tinkering with many rope access systems. It's unlikely that I'll ever let it go
but we will continue to discuss the topic
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The rock climbing world is rife with accidents involving single line techniques, the literature is all over the web. As for tree accidents attributable to SRT or DdRT as the root cause, I don't know, perhaps you have data; that would be educational to see.There is no cut and dry answer of course. After reading about accidents like this it breaks my heart. There are 'accepted' systems that have too many shortcomings in their accepted form which can lead to accidents like this. Why wasn't this climber taught about backups? why didn't they have the tops of the ascenders clipped?
sorry tom but this sounds absurd to me. granted youve been in trees alot longer than i but like has been said " a system is only as good as a climber". i dont think this should be made idiot proof, idiots dont belong in trees, common sence should reignWhy not quit using doubled ropes for ascent once and for all?
SRT is MUCH easier to add backups and second attachment points.
Shoot, the Corvair and Pinto were taken out of production because they were unsafe, why not doubled rope access too? Dang, I'm getting weary of reading about these accidents![]()