Any SRT guys in here?

[Ace76]

And that's bull shit as well.

You can take two wraps on a single line with an 8, Ace. You know how to do that?

I dont think I have seen that before. I was trained using a rack so I have no experience with the 8 yet. Gotta a picutre?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

This it Carl?
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[lumberjack]

You know how you pull a loop through the big hole and around the tail?

Take the loop back through the main hole then around the tail (of the like normal.

I'll look for the picture I made back in the day.

 

[lumberjack]

Bingo, screw finding my picture

 

[NeTree]

Carl... more weight doesn't make more friction?

This isn't advanced physics, kid.

 

[lumberjack]

Yes, it causes more friction.

I'm calling BS on is that when you double the weight on a given surface area, you don't double the friction. You get something less than double. In this example your heavier self would have to hold more tail tension (picture that) than a lighter fellow with the same number of wraps.

The concept isn't advanced physics, but putting a number to it is.

 

[Ace76]

You know how you pull a loop through the big hole and around the tail?

Take the loop back through the main hole then around the tail (of the like normal.

I'll look for the picture I made back in the day.

Ya I see.. The video helped make it more clear.


I'm not sure about more weight=more friction. In the rescue training I did, the heavier the load the more friction you had to manually add to the rack to keep from descending too fast. On an 8 more weight= faster descent unless you add more friction yourself.

 

[NeTree]

Who the frig said anything about doubling the surface area? Or the weight, for that matter... I'm not THAT heavy. =P

Yes, heavier tail tension, which equates to more friction through the 8.

Derr...

 

[lumberjack]

I infered that you implied that your added weight meant you had to hold less weight on the tail than a person who was lighter than you, with an equal number of wraps.

The converse is true.

 

[NeTree]

You inferred my implication incorrectly, my nizzle.

More weight means more pressure on the tail, and therefore more friction between the rope and the 8... so the increase in weight is managed easily, since more weight will end up in more friction. And of course, more heat for the 8 to dissipate.

You have a grand tendency to overcomplicate the shit out of things... and I say this as a former engineer.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Nice thing about the 8 is that my groundie can lower me on it if I need the help just by pulling on my line to cause friction on the 8. Thus he can stop me or lower me if I have a loss of hand due to injury Granted the friction knot back up would have been relinquished Basically allowing my partner to lower me at a safe decent speed

 

[Ace76]

You inferred my implication incorrectly, my nizzle.

More weight means more pressure on the tail, and therefore more friction between the rope and the 8... so the increase in weight is managed easily, since more weight will end up in more friction. And of course, more heat for the 8 to dissipate.

You have a grand tendency to overcomplicate the shit out of things... and I say this as a former engineer.

I can see how your implication can be inferred incorectly. More weight means more pressure on the tail? Increase in weight is managed easily?
More weight=more pressure you have to manualy put on the tail to keep from descending too fast. I would have to hold on to the tail end alot harder than a 150 lb person, wich would make it harder on me. So I guess I'm not understanding you either.

 

[NeTree]

More pressure required, sure. Not all THAT much harder, though, and really... if you can't keep a little more pressure on the tail, you're not in the shape to be doing this stuff anyways.

I don't think it's that hard to understand.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yes more weight on the tail adds friction and slows you down... I think you will find that it is not too much effort Ace. For instance I use a pretty stiff line.. At 150 lbs I barely have to hold the tail to stop. And if you are that worried about your decent speed.. Add the friction knot above the eight and use it to help your speed. I think you will find the friction knot as almost prohibitive in your decent and that your rate of decent will be easily controlled on the 8 by pulling on the tail slightly. Try it from a low point and see how it feels..

 

[lumberjack]

...You have a grand tendency to overcomplicate the shit out of things... and I say this as a former engineer.

I have the tendency to work hard to make sure my written thoughts come across the same as if I said them aloud, especially when addressing questions from someone unfamiliar with the concept at hand.

 

[Ace76]

More pressure required, sure. Not all THAT much harder, though, and really... if you can't keep a little more pressure on the tail, you're not in the shape to be doing this stuff anyways.

I don't think it's that hard to understand.

Ok so we are both on the same page. The way you were explaining it threw me off. It's all good now.

I have never used an 8 so I have no clue on the amount of pressure I would have to apply to keep at a slow decent. You say its not that much, I have to take your word since you have the experience.

Figure 8's aside, I am curious about other descenders like the ID, grigri, or Eddie, wich will stop your descent if something should go wrong. They seem to be safer for a novice like myself.

 

[Ace76]

Yes more weight on the tail adds friction and slows you down... I think you will find that it is not too much effort Ace. For instance I use a pretty stiff line.. At 150 lbs I barely have to hold the tail to stop. And if you are that worried about your decent speed.. Add the friction knot above the eight and use it to help your speed. I think you will find the friction knot as almost prohibitive in your decent and that your rate of decent will be easily controlled on the 8 by pulling on the tail slightly. Try it from a low point and see how it feels..

I will definately give the 8 a shot. I will definately start low until I get a feel for it.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I have the tendency to work hard to make sure my written thoughts come across the same as if I said them aloud, especially when addressing questions from someone unfamiliar with the concept at hand.

Cliff Notes that sucker!

 

[Bodean]

Novice, You say.

I'd suggest start from basic, i.e. muenter then graduate to the 8, then try the tech'd out cam accesories (sp).

Don't worry about stopping. The ground can take care of that.

 

[NeTree]

Don't worry about stopping. The ground can take care of that.

It's never the falling that hurts!

 

[NeTree]

I have never used an 8 so I have no clue on the amount of pressure I would have to apply to keep at a slow decent. You say its not that much, I have to take your word since you have the experience.

Much less grip pressure than it takes to hold onto the ascender on the way up.

A simple rope grab / CMI Microscender backs it up well; it hold tight, and releases pretty easily even with my weight on it.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Always good to know the muenter hitch.
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[Ace76]

Well I was just on a couple other climbing sites and it seems most SRT gurus dont like the 8 because it twists the rope and also causes sheath slippage. For occasional use it should be fine though. Either way I will try it out along with other devices. Thanks for all the fun replies

 

[Koa Man]

Like Skwerl, I can't see any benefit to using SRT for me. I like the way I am currently climbing using DRT with advanced friction hitches and see no need to change something that I am very comfortable and familiar with.

 

[stig]

I only use SRT for hit and run jobs, like seed harvesting.
When harvesting seeds, I go up and down as many as 50 trees a day. I'll have my groundie shoot a line up, go up the line, use two long lanyards to get around and rappel down using a Petzl Piranha.
I switched to Piranha 2 years ago, it is way easier to control on a single line than the 8. Using a big rescue 8 single line, I've almost managed to put myself into free fall a couple of times, no chance of that with the piranha. With that thing, you can always find the right amount of friction for the job, thether the line is dry, wet or soaked in resin.