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16 strand help

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Jman

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Well, after getting the taper set I'm about to never revisit 16 strand rope. The taper was a PITA. Is it suppose to be really hard and are there any pointers?

Second, when doing the bury. I'm going to have to stop there. My wire fid is WAY too short to cover 40+ inchs in material. Does a tube fid work better for 16 strand for this reason or should I make a larger wire fid?

Is 16 strand easier or harder than double braid? I have alot of that waiting to be spliced just though I would work my way up in number of strands. Double braid looks alot eaiser than 16 strand after looking at how far you have to bury the taper. Thanks alot.
 

SkwerI

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The only way I was ever able to do 16 strand was using a coat hanger to pull the bury. I even bought the Toss wand and it was too short to do any good. Now I just buy 16 strand already spliced. But then I'm no splicer.

Double braid is easy peasy. The final bury is easy as long as you massage the rope enough to keep it loose. If it gets too tight, back up and loosen it some more rather than trying to force it through.
 
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fireman

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What I say won't really matter since I am completly new to splicing, but.....

I can say the wire fid is much easier with 16 strand. Do the final bury in a few stages. The last stage will be the most difficult. New rope is much easier than old rope.
Double braid is a physically easier splice but 16 strand is a more straight forward splice. IMO.

Chris
 
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Jman

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I'll have to try doing it in stages. 16 strand is eaiser per instructions but holy crap pulling the taper is rough. nothing compaired to 12 strand. I'll post updtaes once I get my fid un stuck.
 

SkwerI

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You got me to try splicing 16 strand again. I just got a new 200' Arbormaster rope today with an eye on each end. I cut it to 120' and 70' as planned, but then decided I'd try putting eyes on the other ends. I've already cut off one buggered splice (the tape came off the sharp edge of the coat hanger fid and it tore rope strands and got stuck trying to milk it through). Now I'm remembering why I don't splice 16 strand any more. :X

But I'm a glutton for punishment, so I'm trying it again. :roll:
 
J

Jman

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This will be my first and only time if everything works out ok if not I will never splice it. I'm trying to make a ring on some rope for a removalble false redirect and it it doesn't work out I'll try 11mm blaze.

I can't wait for double braid ti looks to much easier even with the bury. :cry:
 

SkwerI

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third try. :whine:

I don't have a good wire fid and I can't keep the tail attached to the coat hanger. I'm going to try pulling through some zing-it throw line and then using that to pull the tail through. Maybe.

But as I said before, I'm no splicer. There are other good splicers here but they aren't speaking up tonight.
 

NickfromWI

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Jman, c'mon! 16 strand isn't THAT bad ;) Okay...yes it is.

You say the taper is a PITA. Do you mean pulling out the 10 cover strands to make the taper, or are you talking about the crossover tapers between C and D? To pull the strands, you just gotta take it one at a time. Snag one of them with a blunt awl, nail, needle nose or your fingers. Pull it out until you have about a 6" loop. Now cut that loop and you can grab that 3" tail with some pliers and pull even more out without fear of messing up the rest of the rope. When you get about 12" out, you can tie a knot and anchor the strand and pull the rope off of the strand, rather than the other way around.

As is often the case in splicing, when things get hard, stop and do something else. In this case, pull the strand until it starts to fight you, then go down the rope and massage it to loosen up that one strand. No go back and pull more. You'll have to repeat this a lot for the first 2 strand, and they get progressively easier after that.

Make sure the core strands have already been pulled before you start pulling the cover strands

The less tape you have on the rope end, the less you'll have to fight to pop each strand free.

For making the a smooth crossover, it's just about precise measuring.

Fireman was right about the burying. Use wire and do it in stages if needed. I like to begin the last stage about in inch from mark C and go all the way to D from there. After running the fid through D-C, make sure you do the pull test to assure you've not snagged any strands. When you pull the cores strands, if they all move mostly freely and in unison then you are golden. If they jam up or if some move and some dont, then you've snagged core strands with the wire fid and you'll need to reset the fid before pulling the cover tail through.

I agree that 16 strand is easier to understand, double braid is easier to do well. Blaze, Poison Ivy, Velocity, and Tachyon are the hardest double braids you'll splice. They are very firm ropes compared to rigging line.

How long is your redirect? There might be a MUUUUUCH easier way to get this done.

love
nick
 

SkwerI

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fuc it! I have 3 blisters on my hands from that damn rope and threads are shredding around mark C as I try to work the beginning of the taper past that point. I quit! I have the AC turned down 5 degrees lower than normal and I'm dripping with sweat trying to do this. This is why I don't splice this damn stuff! :X:X:X
 

NickfromWI

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Brian- I think you have the larger size Zing it. I have reports from others that this "puller" technique will work with larger Zing-It. I've used other things as pullers, too:

-Cover from a tiny double braid
-Core from a tiny double braid
-Loosely woven shoe lace (no joke!)

Click here and let me know if it doesn't make sense.

love
nick
 

jamie

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Nick, i've never thought of pulling the 'rope off the strand' before,

i normally pull the strand and move up an inch or so, then tug and massage the rope over the strand as it bunches up. as you get to teh 4th and 5th marked pairs its easy as. i bury teh tail to mark c with a tubular fid then move onto my homemade wire fid. i'll reduce the stands slightly (in arbormaster i'll cut out the thicker plastic yarns). i find it then slides down the cross over easily.

I hate the crossover when you are not to sure if you have tapered both ends properly.

Jamie
 

NickfromWI

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Oh- you reminded me of another tip. Something that another forum member (can't remember who) decided should be called the Super Taper!

First mark is usually made at 28" Instead, make it at 38". After you pull the 10 cover strands, carefully taper that last 10" even further. That thinner tail will go through the crossover almost EASILY, then you use that tail to pull the rest through.

Again, here I anchor the tail and pull the rope.

love
nick
 

jamie

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Yeah, i only use an extra 6 inches. i pass this to point c then 'super taper' it. i pass my wire fid up and pull teh 'super taper' through, i attach teh fid to something strong and pull the rope not teh taper

does that make sense?


Jamie
 
J

Jman

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Well, I took my rope to work and pulled out the fid with a vise (it got stuck). I will be trying later tonight in stages I don't think I'll be doing this again. I know there is easier ways of doing the redi but I liked this one. I'm in the process of trying a few. You also have to remember I'm not allowed to use my spliced rope at work so I have to test alot of it on my free time.
 
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Jman

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Its the large ring on a tail. I think Mak Adams posted it first. With the yellow arbormaster. He talked about it having to be 1/2" because an 11mm might slip though. So I'm building two and testing. I think that system was the best out of all the ones I saw posted.
 

NickfromWI

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Ah hah! I was thinking it was either that or the monkey tail system they've been talking about at the buzz.

Okay, to skip that whole crossover garbage, take 12' of rope, pull ALLLL the core out and throw it away. Now fold the rope in half and mark your eye right there at the middle (marks A and B), now from B go down and mark your taper, pull out those strands, then just bury that whooooole tail.

I think you'll find this a lot easier and gives a MUCH better finished product.

love
nick
 
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Jman

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I don't really do too much removal work and if everything goes as planned I might have another gig. Then I'll be rec climbing my heart out. I know the location to the national champ willow oak and a few others. I like messing around with small additions to my system.

Now doing what you said. Does that create a safe splice say if it got shock loaded for some reason?

Time to go pull my splice apart to save my ring. I got it 70% done last night but I think I got it stuck on the core.
 

NickfromWI

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The splice I suggested is just as strong as the regular directions. I'd costs you a couple feet of rope, but is easier to do and gives a we finished product.

I'd still needs to be lock stitched like a regular splice.

love
nick
 

jtrouse

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Ah hah! I was thinking it was either that or the monkey tail system they've been talking about at the buzz.

Okay, to skip that whole crossover garbage, take 12' of rope, pull ALLLL the core out and throw it away. Now fold the rope in half and mark your eye right there at the middle (marks A and B), now from B go down and mark your taper, pull out those strands, then just bury that whooooole tail.

I think you'll find this a lot easier and gives a MUCH better finished product.

love
nick
Do share what is this monkey tail system??? Thanks
 
J

Jman

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Well, I finally got in at the end of the day early and finished pulling the taper though the cross over but I can't get the 13" needed to properly finish the cross over.

Is it going to be hard all the way? I have about an inch or so on each side of the core and the taper pulled out.

Is this the part where you need really good measurements and good tapering to make it nice and smooth?

I'm going to keep pulling and drink a beer in between with the fan on and pray I can pull 13 inch out by the end of the night. I want to start on double braid soon :cry:
 
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Jman

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its done and its not 100% right. Got a buzz and blisters on my hands and never again. Maybe once more to get the taper right but 16 strand sucks. I'll post picks later of the crappy splice. Nothing to really love but its good enough for what I'm using it for.
 

SkwerI

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Yup, that's about where I was after trying to splice 16 strand about a dozen times (and completing about 2 of those splices). Even the ones I finished took me over an hour and a half plus several fat blisters from milking the rope. It simply isn't worth saving the $25 splicing charge when you buy the rope.

Double braid on the other hand is not anywhere near as difficult. I am not anywhere near as adept as Nick or others, but I can make a beautiful double braid splice in 30-45 minutes. Without blisters. ;)
 
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