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Thread: Rigging Physics 101 -- Redirect Pulley

  1. #11
    Treehouser Sponsor Tree09's Avatar
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    Sticks are awesome, no power lost in the torque converter, and much more feel imo. 4x4 low solves most problems mentioned, my 7.3 in granny low and 4 low was at most .000002 mph lol

    Force vectors in rope is very easy, line tension in the direction of pull. Your redirect tree will see much more, up to 2x the line force. You can also take the efficiency of the pulley to calculate the actual force lost. For example you have a 95 percent efficient pulley, and 1000 pounds on the line. So you only have 950 pounds going to the tree. Our apprentices are required to be able to calculate the forces on all rigging, with all sorts of angles, to simulate rigging using a tugger, which we use on big jobs all the time.
    Kyle


  2. #12
    Woods walker Sponsor Burnham's Avatar
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    "Confidence is the feeling you sometimes have before you fully understand the situation."

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    Treehouser Sponsor SeanKroll's Avatar
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    4 low, and stick is different than plain stick, imo.


    I was warned about not pulling with a manual after my co-workers ruined the clutch on their bucket truck.

    I stand corrected. Maybe they're fine. I've definitely pulled things with my manuals before, just not hard-pull-trees.

    If it's a heavy pull compared to the vehicle, is that different than a light pull?


    Much easier to stall and lose ground with a stick, I'd think.


    I'm not sure how a guy I know glazed his bucket truck clutch. My only guess is pulling a big tree.
    If it looks like I asked a question, but put a period, it's probably a question.
    Don't know why I'm question-mark challenged online. 😀 New Year's Resolution, better proof reading.

  4. #14
    TreeHouser Sponsor flushcut's Avatar
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    The FOGTW has an entire chapter dedicated to line angles, worth checking out.

  5. #15
    General Purpose Sponsor Stumpshot's Avatar
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    And for the acronym impaired, that means...?

    Jerry B's Fundamentals?

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    Treehouser Sponsor rfwoody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnham View Post
    It's worth noting that tire chains can make a world of difference in traction on off road surfaces, not just snow and ice. Don't spin the tires, throttle control is critical.

    Of course, a winch beats all.

    I'm with Squish on this one...although maybe somewhat more than "the slightest bit of skill" is needed .

    Agreed, per Mick's answers .
    Thanks a lot Mr. Burnham... will you please see questions below?

    Quote Originally Posted by squisher View Post
    Depends on the manual. Just got to know how to use a clutch. All my work trucks have been manuals. Every bucket, my old ghetto 1ton, 550, couple of different 350's. You can certainly pull decently with a manual if you have the slightest bit of skill with a clutch.
    Thanks Squisher. putting questions/comments at end please.


    Quote Originally Posted by SeanKroll View Post
    One on the gas, one with a little pressure in the brake... Two-foot driving.

    Manuals aren't good for pulling slow and steady, like an automatic or winch.

    4 low, and stick is different than plain stick, imo.

    I was warned about not pulling with a manual after my co-workers ruined the clutch on their bucket truck.

    Much easier to stall and lose ground with a stick, I'd think.
    Thanks Sean. putting questions/comments at end please.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mick! View Post

    Seriously though, manuals are absolutely fine as a pulling device.

    To answer the questions directly.

    1: not significantly.

    2: never really thought about it before but yes, itÂ’ll keep your wheels on the ground.
    Ha, thanks Mick! short and to the point!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tree09 View Post
    Sticks are awesome, no power lost in the torque converter, and much more feel imo. 4x4 low solves most problems mentioned, my 7.3 in granny low and 4 low was at most .000002 mph lol

    Force vectors in rope is very easy, line tension in the direction of pull. Your redirect tree will see much more, up to 2x the line force. You can also take the efficiency of the pulley to calculate the actual force lost. For example you have a 95 percent efficient pulley, and 1000 pounds on the line. So you only have 950 pounds going to the tree. Our apprentices are required to be able to calculate the forces on all rigging, with all sorts of angles, to simulate rigging using a tugger, which we use on big jobs all the time.
    Thanks Kyle. Yes I did enjoy vectors in school and I really appreciate your practical and theoretical knowledge of all this.
    yeah, I wanted to make sure I understood correctly on the redirect pulley... that there is no significant loss of force except from pulley efficiency. Thanks for clarifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by flushcut View Post
    The FOGTW has an entire chapter dedicated to line angles, worth checking out.
    Thanks Flushcut... yeah, just rechecked.... Chapter 31 "Pulling the Tree" (?) .... also in the DVDs he talks some about this I recall.
    .... every time I go through Mr. Beranek's book and DVD's (or any other books (e.g. Jeff Jepson (thought not exactly same category)) I see something new to add to what has been more digested via experience.

    ========================================

    General Comments and Questions to above if you please:

    I have a 1995 Dodge 2500 which everyone says is a "beast" (relatively speaking of course).
    The 4x4 low "granny" mode (and per Kyle) seems to give a lot of strong steady pulling power.
    --- would this qualify as the "best" sort of scenario if using a truck to pull?

    Winches ------ would you trust a Harbor Freight winch in your work? ..... or would you trust nothing less than a Warn (or comperable).

    Thanks!
    - Robert
    Slowly trying to make a profit in tree work with my neighborhood tree service.
    Thinking I want to become a Certified Arborist.
    www.PoagvilleTreeService.com

  7. #17
    Treehouser Sponsor SeanKroll's Avatar
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    Is factory reverse typically geared lower (more powerful gear ratio) than first gear, in passenger trucks? Medium duty?


    Being able to see the tree, if backing away, sometimes helps.
    If it looks like I asked a question, but put a period, it's probably a question.
    Don't know why I'm question-mark challenged online. 😀 New Year's Resolution, better proof reading.

  8. #18
    TreeHouser Sponsor flushcut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpshot View Post
    And for the acronym impaired, that means...?

    Jerry B's Fundamentals?
    Yes

  9. #19
    Treehouser Sponsor SeanKroll's Avatar
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    aka FOGT in some references.
    If it looks like I asked a question, but put a period, it's probably a question.
    Don't know why I'm question-mark challenged online. 😀 New Year's Resolution, better proof reading.

  10. #20
    Woods walker Sponsor Burnham's Avatar
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    Robert, in my experience, your truck (assuming top operating condition) is an excellent tool for the job. I drove one just like it for 7 years, over 80k miles, 80% on backwoods logging roads. A USFS rig.

    As for the question of Warn vs. Harbor Freight. I have no experience with the latter. They may be wonderful...or for all I know, crap. There are other manufacturers out there too. But again, I have extensive experience with 3 different Warn models, and no other. To be clear, I am definitely prejudiced, but with no decent standing for comparisons.

    But I do see the prices. A 12k Warn will run you about 400-500 dollars more than a 12k Badland (Harbor Freight). I'd spend that pissant bit of money more in the drop of a hat, for a tool I KNOW will work hard, and for a very long time. I'd go with Warn, myself.

    Now if you can get positive feedback from real people with real experience with the Badland models, I say go with that info...I just don't know anyone among my friends and fellow woods workers who has gone that route.
    "Confidence is the feeling you sometimes have before you fully understand the situation."