What's the Definition of Snake Oil Sales in the Tree Biz?

Jomo

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Cabling and bracing is a part of this biz that can provide huge benefits to both trees and people if done properly.

There's a very old school train of thought on cabling that says rule number one is to never cable or brace anything in a tree unless a structural defect is positively identified.

A rule with which I wholeheartedly agree today.

The analogy that can be made between tree limb strength and human arm strength is a valid one IMO.

Whether tree or human, assuming both are healthy, they either use it or lose it, put a limiter or cast on it? It weakens it, and therefore gets skinnier.

This is well illustrated by looking at branches that crossover each other being of smaller dia previous to that point toward the parent stem.

Trees are like people, the more exercise they get, the more fit and stronger they are. Snow loads are like tree dumb bells that stimulate reaction wood growth.

So the only means of strengthening a healthy tree limb is to apply a load to it, in moderate enough increments to avoid structural failure. Leaf load, rain load, snow load, ice load.

There is a science that applies to reaction wood formation, what stimulates it, and why it is scientifically preferable to only cable a tree when it actually has a structural defect.

In short I'm opening up a can o worms on all you Cobra synthetic dynamic cabling systems proponents. Pushing snake oil tree weakening systems on arboreally uneducated customers and clients.

If you do cable a tree? That system must be intended to last as long possible, the life of the tree. Because science proves beyond the shadow of a doubt, that said cabled tree will become dependent on its artificial support for life.

Kind of an old school if it ain't broke leave it be sorta logic.

Now I realize this could get nasty cuz a lot of Cobra proponents may hang here. So let's not get all bent outta shape just because I disagree the logic driving Cobra sales, I disagree with their science, at a very fundamental level.

Got a project going at a gardening friends house, where rather than cable her Tipu tree coming from the middle of her backyard decking and covering her entire upper level deck, I hung weights on the tree's laterals, in the form of potted plants, with integral plumbing that waters them on a timer, or should I say weights them on a regular basis?

The runoff waters the tipu host as a symbiotic beneficiary of this tree strengthening regime!
Twelve hanging plants adding more than just color and contrast to my friends exotic plant atmosphere on her backyard deck collection.
 

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I think the word is anthropomorphism.
Branches are not arms and I suspect that incremental weight increase will just result in an eventual fracture.
Just my thoughts though.
 
I agree with most of what your saying. I disagree with the statement that a tree needs to have a defect to merit the need of a cable. I think tree species plays an important role, as some species are more prone to failure then others. The more urban the environment, the higher the odds that something or someone will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sometimes it is best to reduce risk as much as possible, even if it weakens the tree in the long run. I do agree that a tree is then cable dependent.
 
Cables should be secondary and pruning primary.imo
no point cabling if the limb is not reduced.
see what i mean?
I do alot of slack cables as back ups incase of a major enviro event.
I am preservationist as well so many trees that have been deemed unfit by others, I fit.
 
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  • #7
And a good salesman could convince you to cable every lateral limb over a walkway or house, just in case?

Where does the science end and the snake oil sales start?

Jomo
 
Good article. I think most people understand this principle. All you need to do is look at a cross cut section of wood that was not growing straight up. Actually it can even be viewed on trees growing straight that have heavy wind loads. I don't think anyone here doubts that trees grow and adapt to their situation.
 
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  • #9
Take two identical laterals developing reaction wood together in a wind prone environment. One gets the Cobra limited support to protect it from extreme winds stressing it, the way it does its unsupported identical brother, that reacts to that stress.

After ten years of this which branch is weaker, and which is stronger?

I 'm speaking of healthy trees, with no discernible structural defects.

Jomo
 
Everything has to be considered.... demographic, tree health, targets, species....... physics..... Not any one plan or circumstance works for all scenarios. Every tree has to be addressed as an individual with it's own circumstances. Balance the tree, environment and client.
 
Jon, no worries--hanging those planters was not snake oil! I think they look nice, and they can also function as bird nests.

Snake oil is selling Nitrogen to speed tree growth, then recommending removal because the tree is too big.

Hard to believe maybe, but this is the modus operandi of one VERY big tree company. :/:
 
And a good salesman could convince you to cable every lateral limb over a walkway or house, just in case?

Where does the science end and the snake oil sales start?

Jomo

That would be relative to what you consider a good salesman.
 
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  • #13
Science illustrates that supporting a healthy limb/trunk will weaken it in time.

The only valid method of strengthening any limb/trunk is applying moderate stresses to it on a cyclical basis.

One strengthens, one weakens.

Scientifically speaking.

Jomo
 
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  • #14
Jon, no worries--hanging those planters was not snake oil! I think they look nice, and they can also function as bird nests.

Snake oil is selling Nitrogen to speed tree growth, then recommending removal because the tree is too big.

Hard to believe maybe, but this is the modus operandi of one VERY big tree company. :/:

Dat you?

Yu old dendrologist?

Did you know rats like chewin synthetics mate?

Jomo
 
Does the weight reduction accomplished by reduction pruning weaken a limb over time?
It would seem to follow that it does, if hanging pots on a limb will strengthen it.
 
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  • #16
Does the weight reduction accomplished by reduction pruning weaken a limb over time?
It would seem to follow that it does, if hanging pots on a limb will strengthen it.
Because reduction pruning so often entails large cuts/wounds inflicted on the limb?
I'd say the optimum choice over cabling is a good class one prune using more small cuts of less than an inch.

But pruning over cabling in general?

You betcha!

Jomo
 
Did you know rats like chewin synthetics mate?

Jomo
One more reason to hunt squirrels. But nope I'm not feeding your anti-dynamic rant. Been there done that and burned the Tshirt. :X

Does the weight reduction accomplished by reduction pruning weaken a limb over time?

Not if the branch adds enough new leaves, as most branches tend to do. Any more SWAGs?
 
Yeah...., but only in reply to what you consider my silly wild ass guess: do you reckon becoming a BCMA fostered a condescending attitude towards lesser mortals who question your pronouncements?

Btw. Leaves on their own don't weigh much...I think Dr. Coder did a study on that (using inmates to collect them)
 
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  • #19
It's not just leaves, it's fruitl/nut loads, and many others that moderately stress branches for a while, then drop to earth. Then there's water loads, slowly dissipating.

What science backs the notion that supporting a branch makes it stronger or safer over the tree's life? Or ours?

Jomo
 
It's not just leaves, it's fruitl/nut loads, and many others that moderately stress branches for a while, then drop to earth. Then there's water loads, slowly dissipating.

What science backs the notion that supporting a branch makes it stronger or safer over the tree's life? Or ours?

Jomo

I agree, Jomo. Water, wind, ice; lots of transient recurring stressors.
Which is why I thought my question re. reduction pruning causing potential limb strength loss was legitimate, not a SWAG...
 
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  • #21
Props to yu Pelorus mate.

Almost without exception the most beautiful trees I've ever laid eyes on were untouched by hasty sharp tooled humans tryin to convince you a regular torture plan's good for the tree.

I'm speaking of course bout trees in their natural environments.

Not man made forced nitrogen fed immaculate lawn environments in today's urban track home communities.
Tis these man made communities in which Caffra Corals need whacking every six months. Rather than like, never at home in Africa.

Mother Nature is fully deserving of our enraptured awe IMO.

You could certainly do worse than mimicking Her!

Jomo
 
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  • #22
I agree, Jomo. Water, wind, ice; lots of transient recurring stressors.
Which is why I thought my question re. reduction pruning causing potential limb strength loss was legitimate, not a SWAG...

Not just a legit question, but an extremely pertinent one. Best illustrated by novice pruners lion tailing limbs to let the wind through, thinking it a safety prune, when the dirty truth is they've crippled said limb's ability to put on girth at the most leverage stressed portion of those very branches!

But it's so hard to get out there on those branch tips where moderate reduction pruning can indeed enhance that limbs ability to withstand high winds/loads before failure occurs.

Pruning rather than cabling when done wisely's a very good choice IMO.

Jomo
 
It has occurred to me upon occasion...when doing a fairly large end weight reduction, what the equal and opposite reaction will be in relieving that weight. Yes the limb was over stressed with weight, viz bark wrinkles, cracks, fresh reaction growth, but in relieving it, what possible other reaction might occur?
Could there be internal cracks develop as the weight comes off? fibres in relieved tension wood possibly separating?

I therefore tend to be conservative in weight reduction, perhaps allowing the stresses to adjust without an unintended internal failure as I remove what it has been beginning to compensate for, and revisit over time.

But, as I have seen here in Tasmania, after a very wet winter that followed a very dry summer, that followed probably four years of drought, the addition of new growth this year has been quite something, and some trees have been overwhelmed. The weight and wind sail of the new growth has been too much for the wood/branch physiology that has developed in the stress years and CRACK BOOM, down come the branches.
So keeping an eye out for that, knowing what has preceded, helps in the decision making process.

As for cobra, I have one tree, a liquidamber, next to a drive, co-dominant top, split, and hollow below the join, darn right skippy, I put a cobra up there (or my version of it), if it fails, at least it won't fall into the driveway until I can get up to reduce it.
 
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  • #25
So essentially an appropriately colored and tied polyester rope could achieve the same effect at a lower cost?

Jomo
 
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