the stangle: a combination of the Humboldt and the slice cut

I call that a zip cut or a spear cut.

We would use them in the bay or euc tree reductions in Marin... I'd go up to 6"... put a tall spear in a tight spot in a hurry.

Marc said it right when it's like a freight train roaring past your head as it spears down.
 
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  • #29
would you throw in a narrow notch or just make a straight spear cut?

I think its important to distinguish the two with our language and have been coming around on Mick's idea of calling it the trapdoor.
 
bigger diameter, height, weight. All that combined makes the cut tricky and enhances the risk of failure.
 
I watched someone try to do that with a 24" by 6 ft stub... slight forward lean... the bottom slipped forward and the rest fell backwards more heavy headed with the butt kicked out forward....

At least he was in a bucket... but I was like WTF.
Nearly brained himself.
 
How far did the stub tilt away from the cutter before the hinge popped? Did it get up any tilt away speed or was it just a salami cut?
 
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  • #39
bigger diameter, height, weight. All that combined makes the cut tricky and enhances the risk of failure.
Yes, but how big... bigger is not specific enough for this subject... 3" is bigger than 2.5"... Kind of like praying for more money, then having your prayers answered when you pick up a dime off the street.

I have used this cut to take out the top of a sugar maple, from the spikes, in 16-18" wood... Could have even been bigger... co-dom with big limbs on the backside coming way back over my head. I had to widen up the notch to make sure the top was well past me before it dropped. SO I gave it about 10 degrees more than I thought it needed, and by the time the face closed the top had plenty of momentum to keep it moving forward +down and away from me.
 
I reckon, if you believe in this cut Murph, start using it and filming it in your own work again and again.

Different sizes, different species, different contexts. Your insurance, your equipment, your neck.

Otherwise, there’s no argument to be had, it’s just farting around for a bit of a chat on forums.
 
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  • #44
Maple? In the tree on spurs? Sounds like flirting with a possible barber chair Daniel.:/:
no thought of BBC up there as I recall. The only concern was if the limbs were going to hit me as the whole top came flying down. After that the next concerne was if the top would make the lay. There wasn't enough lean and the grain was strong enough to prevent much chance of BBC..
 
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  • #45
I reckon, if you believe in this cut Murph, start using it and filming it in your own work again and again.

Different sizes, different species, different contexts. Your insurance, your equipment, your neck.

Otherwise, there’s no argument to be had, it’s just farting around for a bit of a chat on forums.


I could make some videos to make a point but mostly have not done that over the years. Mostly have made videos showing real solutions to problems I face on the job. For those that don't know, the last time was in the spikes which was for about 45 minutes in late November of 2016, I had a lot of foot fain for the next two years. The first 6 months were rough, limping around tree jobs, wondering if I could keep going if the pain got any worse. Two years is a long time to recover from a 45-minute climb. SO, I don't plan on ever using spikes again and never liked getting out of the bucket if I could avoid it anyhow. So I find ways of dealing with trees that others would just climb.
 
Daniel: I feel a great affinity with you because, I like you, feel the need to post up a buncha stuff that I've been doing of late for validation/condemnation, from guys like Mick, Corey, Burnham, and formerly (alas!) Butch, Gerry, and Graehame. We are odd ducks, imho: we who constantly desire these trivial "Atta boy's," or else (which is worse) the perverse bravado that comes from being chided by older, more masculine folk who (out of love) insist that we shoulda known better. I stand by that. You and I are odd ducks. Lately, I've been trying to modify my single tie-in stuff a bit because older guys have said that I should, and (in all honesty) I revert a lot, but I HAVE made some, real progress.

I think that I may be about your same age--I'm 48-- but regardless... allow me to be presumptious enough... as someone who seldom has the luxury to work without spurs... to suggest that flirting with a narrow face in big wood is just a bad idea. Those pigs are fixin ta pop once the face closes and no bucket is fast enough to rip you out of the way in time. Having said that, yer yer own man, and I respect a ton of the work that you done over the years: especially jerking that White Pine top off of the stump, over the hedge with yer True Blue and yer black 4x4. :lol: That was rad stuff my man, and may you live long to keep em' commin'.(y)
 
@Jed you need to do an image search for people who have died falling, and then ask yourself if that's a state that you want your wife and kids to see when they have to come identify you. Make that you background on your phone for a week or two if needed to help it sink in. But good job on improving, and thanks for giving me something to shoot for with the precision of your saw work!!!!
 
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  • #48
How did you deal with your lanyard circle of death when you "Stangled" the maple top on spurs? I had an Ash top do a "Stangle" motion past me when the hinge went away and in hindsight, I was damn glad the butt didn't get inside my lanyard. It would've done me like a can opener. The branches brushed me a bit hard too even though the top wasn't very big.
The ideal behavior is the tip of the butt goes down skimming past where your lanyard is tight on the trunk 180 degrees opposite you. But Sh!t happens and the two 90 degree quadrants where your (normal side Dee's) lanyard tangents off the trunk have some vulnerability. On a good fiber-y tree the hinge and release behave well. But it's the what-if, suppose a hidden defect, buried, grown in knot or such that kicks out the symmetry loading and motion of the butt? I realize I'm being somewhat rhetorical and the answer is choking SRT mode.
I get the impression this is a spear cut with some controllable tilt during the triggering phase and maybe a little less saw grab. But reliant on good wood.
To be honest, its been so long since I cut that maple top on the hooks that I don't remember the exact details of my line and lanyard. I may have been working off a friction saver but likely not. The chance of that tree BBC was about next to nothing would be my guess, or I would have remembered that being a factor. There can be lots of reasons for that. most likely there was a nice branching structure up there. There enough front lean to take the top 100% to the desired lay, but not so excessive as to be a threat of BBC, and the maple top was full of crotches, not at all prone to splitting.

Generally, the most important factor is that you have near-perfect front lean to the top. Expect no directional control from the notch. Then after that, it's getting the width of the notch right, to ensure the top moves enough to clear your overhead space before it drops. Then there is making sure the back cut doesn't leave a lip to hang-up on, which can stall the top after the face closes.

I don't see much chance of the tip of the spear catching your lanyard. The "point" of the spear slides off the undercut and away from the trunk. If there is any concern about ANY line getting caught you can always place it under a crotch or cut a little notch in the trunk, just deep enough to hide the line. I've done that with pull lines that are tied off at the base of the tree. Fast, easy effective.
 
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  • #49
Daniel: I feel a great affinity with you because, I like you, feel the need to post up a buncha stuff that I've been doing of late for validation/condemnation, from guys like Mick, Corey, Burnham, and formerly (alas!) Butch, Gerry, and Graehame. We are odd ducks, imho: we who constantly desire these trivial "Atta boy's," or else (which is worse) the perverse bravado that comes from being chided by older, more masculine folk who (out of love) insist that we shoulda known better. I stand by that. You and I are odd ducks. Lately, I've been trying to modify my single tie-in stuff a bit because older guys have said that I should, and (in all honesty) I revert a lot, but I HAVE made some, real progress.

I think that I may be about your same age--I'm 48-- but regardless... allow me to be presumptious enough... as someone who seldom has the luxury to work without spurs... to suggest that flirting with a narrow face in big wood is just a bad idea. Those pigs are fixin ta pop once the face closes and no bucket is fast enough to rip you out of the way in time. Having said that, yer yer own man, and I respect a ton of the work that you done over the years: especially jerking that White Pine top off of the stump, over the hedge with yer True Blue and yer black 4x4. :lol: That was rad stuff my man, and may you live long to keep em' commin'.(y)

JED
I HAVE ASKED YOU REPEATEDLY TO SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. Your self -depreciation may work for you but please leave me out of your "we are twins" scenario.
I've been cutting trees as my only profession since you were twelve years old. You've been posting 30-60 second videos on youtube for a couple of years, and have how many subscribers on YouTube?

I've been posting videos since 2009, 7 million views, and have 10,000 subscribers. I was ahead of Reg in the former and right behind him in the category, and ahead of August for some time, before I nearly stopped posting in 2012 for some years. My YouTube channel was a parameter in the early days. When August passed me in subscribers, he called Bixler and said: "I just passed Murphy". NO ONE is ever going to say that about you.

I enjoy your videos and think you have far more skill than you let on. BUT what have you shown on video other than one little slice of how to cut trees? I've shown many things that have never seen before or after. And was the first to publish many tips, tricks, and techniques in any form, written or video.

Plunged vertical snap cut, which is a variation I made up of a technique used for countless years. While it would be highly unlikely that I was the first person to have figured that technique out, it most certainly had never been published before. Early discussions on the forums made it clear that many seasoned pros had never seen or even heard of it, (or anything like it!). And subsequently, it has become a standard cut within the industry. You can find a video of some highway workers using the cut on a huge hung tree with perfect results.

Same with the plate cut. Never published before. Ridiculed by many seasoned pros when it was first introduced, including some here on this forum, only to become a standard cut as seen on many youtube videos. Even my early videos of plunge cuts were questioned by many here, including some of your mentors.

Then there is the width of the subject matter in my videos. While there is a degree of subjectivity to this matter, I'll argue that there is no library of videos that covers a greater range of subjects related to tree care.

reduction Pruning, improper pruning, cabling, rigging, falling, bucking techniques, crane work, disease, hazardous tree inspection, throwing tops, remote trips (cripple) for both falling and rigging scenarios, near balance point rigging, rip cut rigging, tree species' properties, gutting the hinge, skid loaders, forensic tree assessment, hinge analysis, history of trees, redirects, two-stage pruning, pulling technique, safety issues, the depth of notches, wild edibles, mushrooms and fungi, lifting heavy backleaners, standing up root balls, stump grinding, turf tracks, barber chair, tapered hinge, right angle retainer lines, distinctions between logging and arboriculture, tip-tying.

The look at the comments such as :
Beautiful demonstration and narration Daniel, l love your hands-on no-nonsense approach to your work, the educational and inspirational nature of the vids, keep up the good work, stay safe always.

Are they saying anything like that to you Jed?

So do me a favor for the last time. DO NOT INCLUDE ME IN YOUR LITTLE SELF-DEPRICATING STORIES.

It's a simple request. One which you have already agreed to. So what is your word worth Jed?

I don't have to come around here. If you can't honor your word then the community will have to live with the consequences.
 
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