The Logging Thread

[squisher]

Milled in China. I wonder about the quality and conditions of those jobs. Here working in a mill provides a decent middle class income.

 

[squisher]

.....Jay, it is not about market as many boards wind up back here in homes...it is about labor and costs...Canadian and Chinese mills run three shifts while domestic mills are closed...where. are the jobs and paychecks...?...

I think you could take Canada out of that. The USA is by large our biggest customer of forest products, but you're not sending us the logs.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Do you still have a good mill industry where you are Squisher? There is only one full time mill in my county that I can think of, and the owner just died a couple of weeks ago. Don't know if it's going to keep going or not. I'll have to ask around, but the only mills I can think of are the backyard guys like myself.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Good question, Squish. I know that the first US Walnut boards that I had seen out of China, were rather crude in the milling, some fluctuations in the dimensions. That has much improved over time, to the point that there is no discernible distinction between US milled and Chinese milled, except the friggen Chinese don't give you any extra thickness like is common from mills in the states. Having an extra 3/16" or so beyond the stated size and paid for price is very helpful. So, if there is some connection between the quality of saws being used for the work, and the working conditions for the people operating, maybe you could say that things are alright. New equipment shows that there is money in wood.

 

[squisher]

The main office of Tolko is in Vernon, BC. and their original mill/planer is nearly my neighbour (91 acres separates us). They have over 3000 employees at sites all around Canada. And 100's around here. They have another site within 15mins of their other plant, a old competitor they bought up. When I was a boy their where 6 huge sawmills within 1/2hr of my hometown(Lumby) and three right in town.

 

[Tucker943]

Raw log exports undermine manufacturing jobs in your own country. Canada's been doing it for years.

Im not sure I understand. When we need wood products in America, we generate them. But id the Chinese want to build their country too, sell them the raw product. If it wasn't for our local mills outlet for product in China, I guarantee they would have shut the gates on the loggers during the height of the recession when America wasn't doing much building/spending. Prices were tight at the mill. But the diligent and strong logging companies made it through and with one exception, the mill never shut the gate.

 

[Dave Shepard]

China isn't just building with it, they are making products and sending it back to the US. That's were we are loosing jobs.

 

[squisher]

Im not sure I understand. When we need wood products in America, we generate them. But id the Chinese want to build their country too, sell them the raw product. If it wasn't for our local mills outlet for product in China, I guarantee they would have shut the gates on the loggers during the height of the recession when America wasn't doing much building/spending. Prices were tight at the mill. But the diligent and strong logging companies made it through and with one exception, the mill never shut the gate.

I'm not following you. You say it's good because your mill never shut the gates? But you also agree with sending raw logs overseas so they can process them themselves? The USA does not support it's own softwood building lumber needs with it's own products.

 

[old irish]

Kind of interesting fact: the U.S. produces more lumber than Canada. I was very surprised to learn this. As a logger the more worldwide demand for logs the more likely it is that we can make a profit because of increased demand. The sawmill situation is sad though. A lot of small towns have lost their mills and with that a lot of "decent" paying jobs. Now, no one wants to do that kind of work. Ever pulled "Green Chain"?
Joel: welcome! And if any of us can answer questions, don't hesitate to ask. It sounds like their isn't much of a "wood" culture up your way, but at least their is an opportunity that you have recognized and are taking advantage of. That is exactly how a lot of the rest of us started.

 

[squisher]

While the USA produces more lumber. About 11bbf vs 9bbf in Canada. The difference is we export a ton of ours to you because you need it to support your housing industry. You guys are our customer. We are a fraction of your population and if you guys didn't buy it we could drown ourselves in lumber.

The best for the logger is to sell to a mill, any mill I guess. The best for a nation is to cut it and turn it into something more valuable than logs before selling it.

Green chains no longer exist in mills up here, it's all big sorters/stackers. Planer chains still exist.

 

[squisher]

 

[MasterBlaster]

Just charge more.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Well, don't feel out of place Joel; everyone here started somewhere and there are several on site now who are just stating up or still in the hobby/part time category.

welcome to the Treehouse!

My goodness! DONT feel out of place! Most of my chainsaw experience has been pointing blunt eight inch posts before driving them. (too cheap to buy the pointed ones.) I work part time as a saw hand for the State fighting fire. Still kinda waiting for the fellers to drop the hammer on me but they haven't yet!

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Ya, Joel, everyone started at the beginning. From what I can tell, nobody started doing tree work after being born with a silver spoon in their mouth. R. J. Simplot started out shaking/ sorting (something like that)other people's potatoes and became a potato baron.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Always a bummer when people lose jobs, but perhaps thinking more globally is the way of success in today's market, which seems to also have a good side for all parties. The Chinese are also creating jobs in the US, by improving and reopening sawmills, then hiring folks to work in them. http://charlottechamber.com/clientuploads/Economic_pdfs/Announcements/Tides&Times_03-26-2013.pdf

Also in BC, Squish, you might be interested in this. Some folks are getting their checks. http://www.westerninvestor.com/inde...s/1102-china-linked-investors-buy-skeena-mill

 

[Tucker943]

Milled in China. I wonder about the quality and conditions of those jobs. Here working in a mill provides a decent middle class income.

Global economics boss....

 

[old irish]

Part of the problem is that the Canadian Govt. subsidises the timber industry. If you look at industry publications all the loggers in Can. are running either brand new or near new equipment. Only the biggest or oldest outfits in the U.S. can do that and there isn't very many of them.

 

[flushcut]

Worlds gone mad. Actually this came up a while ago with Stig. It seems that so many empty containers go back to these countries that they have to fill them with something, no matter how daft it may seem. If I'm wrong let me know.

Being Indian and having a farther that goes there six months out of the year, he tells me that there is a wood shortage in India. Now I would think importing prime lumber for furniture would be a very good idea.

 

[squisher]

Part of the problem is that the Canadian Govt. subsidises the timber industry. If you look at industry publications all the loggers in Can. are running either brand new or near new equipment. Only the biggest or oldest outfits in the U.S. can do that and there isn't very many of them.

No offense but up here that would be considered propaganda fed to the USA citizens by your lumber producers. Up here most of the land is public owned. When logging it you log to strict standards. It's all replanted, you pay stumpage to the government, the crown inspects how it's done and how it's being managed, and so on and so forth. Logging and lumber manufacturing creates huge wealth for our government, not the other way around. If the government was subsidizing it where are they taking that money from? Oil, mining? No forestry makes a fortune. Tariffs keep our lumber prices up where your mills prices are otherwise our lumber would be much cheaper. Freetrade? Not even close.

As Chris says, global economics boss. But as always we pretty much do as we're told as long as we're comfy.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Still kinda waiting for the fellers to drop the hammer on me but they haven't yet!

We don't do that 'round here.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Jim, I wasn't even aware you owned a chainsaw, nor did it occur to me that that might have any affect on the appropriateness of your participation at the 'House.

 

[Mick!]

Being Indian and having a farther that goes there six months out of the year, he tells me that there is a wood shortage in India. Now I would think importing prime lumber for furniture would be a very good idea.

Sure if they're importing from the US or canada, but little old England?

 

[Altissimus]

...a few years ago in Brattleboro I parked next a truck with some thickly sawn boards in it ...being curious I looked. Small piece of Cherry a few Redwood boards and something I could only guess as Butternut but it didn't look right, chatted with the owner turns out it was English Walnut...Wood does get around

 

[stig]

Sure if they're importing from the US or canada, but little old England?

Once the ash trees start dying off in England like they are here, you'll be happy about the Chinese buying the logs.
There is no way the local market could have absorbed the amount of ash logs being felled here these days as we try to stay ahead of the fungus.

 

[Mick!]

Logs or lumber? The Chinese are buying firewood off you?