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Telling people how to cut and not coming across as a know it all

Cobleskill

Treehouser
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
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3,811
Location
Western New York near Lake Ontario
I watched my neighbor and another guy cutting trees this morning. All kinds of Sthil saws, Bobcat with a grapple and stump grinder, side pouch with wedges. You would think they should have the basics mastered, right? Both of them made the backcut lower than the face. I wanted to tell them that really wasn't right but I am sure neither one would appreciate being told. Any advice on giving advice??
 

lumberjack

Young man on the go
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
9,039
Location
Mississippi
Are they your competitor? If so I'd just watch unless someone was fixing to get hurt. In that case the proper protocol is to pull out the camera and put the vid on You Tube.

I helped my neighbor yesterday, gave him pointers along the way. I'd tell the other dudes that I've found it's easier to wedge them over if the back cut is level with or higher than the backcut.
 
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fishhuntcutwood

Guest
I wanted to tell them that really wasn't right but I am sure neither one would appreciate being told. Any advice on giving advice??
If they're your friends/neighbors, then this answers your question. If they don't want to be told, don't tell them. If they're young and up-and-coming looking to learn, then they'll welcome it.

I don't know them or you, but LJ's idea of playing it dumb with the "I dunno, but I've found it that....."
 

Stumper

Treehouser
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
3,392
Location
Colorado
Funny, I had a friend who is a decent sawyer ask me why the backcut should be higher than the floor of the face the other day-he knew to do it but wanted to know why. We had a brief discussion on stump shot and then whai IMO is more important- the mechanics of bending and breaking wood. Lightbulbs went off for him. It is easier to iniate movement if the backcut isabove the floor because there is a a relief for compression on the face side and the tension side(backcut has some distance above the compression relief to seperate and bend the hinge as a "strap". It is easier to start the fall and the hinge breaks sequentially maintaining attachment to the stump and control for a longer portion of the fall. Leverages and mechanics. Some people gobble that kind of info up-others just stare at you blankly, shrug and say " I ain't got no problen the way I do it." then turn back to their work and do it even worse to "prove" they know what they are doing.
 

Cobleskill

Treehouser
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
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Location
Western New York near Lake Ontario
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
I haven't watched Ax-Man, because I don't have cable, but they were talking about watching it this morning. Or is that a joke because they don't their ass from their elbow either.

My son is supposed to be taping it for me, but I think he lost the tape.
 
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fishhuntcutwood

Guest
The guys on Ax Men are professional fallers, but once in an episode or so, they'll let a greenhorn cut, and it goes to hell. The professional fallers on the show do it well IMO.

I like when I see slanted back cuts on stump in people's yards. Usually, the slant goes toward the direction they want it to fall, but in reality, a slant would tend it backward. Fortunately, they're usually small enough trees they can push over, or pull with the riding lawn mower they have it tied to. :roll:

(I love when someone asks me if I want to "tie it off" or if I want them to pull it in their truck, and I play dumb, and ask, "why would we do that? This tree just needs a little wedge." "A little what?......." they say. :lol:)
 

lumberjack

Young man on the go
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
9,039
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Mississippi
Jeff, I'm not playing dumb, I found out first hand that for wedging over trees it sucks to have the back cut lower than the apex.

Sucks with a half-life.
 
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Frans

Guest
Giving free unasked for advice works about as well as knocking on some persons door and offering to do some tree work for them.

Those guys seem like they have all the gear, so they apparently think they know what they are doing.
Thats a tuff situation, good luck.

Maybe offer to fell a tree for them for free? Act like you are real eager and excited?
 

No_Bivy

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
6,002
Send them a copy of Gerry B's book and a six pack......then they will be friendly and open to advice. If that doesn't work say " outta my way bitches, lemme show yu'ins how to do it"
 

sawinredneck

Treehouser
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
8,460
Location
Kansas
Jeff, I'm not playing dumb, I found out first hand that for wedging over trees it sucks to have the back cut lower than the apex.

Sucks with a half-life.
YUP!!! Been there twice, once I even made the angled back cut Jeff likes so well!! Both times it blew!!

The sitters hubby wants to trim his tree. It has some low hanging branches and a little deadwooding. He is pretty pumped about climbing it and cleaning it up, he just got a new chainsaw.











































A 14" Remington electric. Think I should intervene:lol:
 

SkwerI

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
18,048
Location
central Florida
Andy, please don't. If he wanted your help then he wouldn't have bought the chainsaw. Let him have at it and then you can go cut down what's left of the tree after he's finished. ;)
 

sawinredneck

Treehouser
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
8,460
Location
Kansas
Andy, please don't. If he wanted your help then he wouldn't have bought the chainsaw. Let him have at it and then you can go cut down what's left of the tree after he's finished. ;)
You just want to watch the video Brian, I know how you work:lol:
 
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fishhuntcutwood

Guest
Jeff, I'm not playing dumb, I found out first hand that for wedging over trees it sucks to have the back cut lower than the apex.

Sucks with a half-life.
Sorry, didn't mean it that way. I just meant the "hey, for me, I've found this..." Rather than, "hey, this is the way you're supposed to do it..."

It's like when Gary asked me to help him with his fly casting. He WANTED help, so I told him how it was done, because I (like to think) know what I'm talking about. If I'd seen Gary on the river, and he was just some dude I didn't know, I'd approach him with the, "hey, I dunno...but this works for me...if you want to try it."
 

stehansen

Climbing Up
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
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Location
Ceres, CA
Giving free unasked for advice works about as well as knocking on some persons door and offering to do some tree work for them.QUOTE]

Yup, there is no way to come out on that. Maybe you could say "for ________ bucks I'll show you what you're doing wrong". Maybe you could clear you conscience that way. Hey you can't help it if the guy is cheap, right?
 

Al Smith

Mac Daddy
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
14,057
Location
Northern Ohio
It's like when Gary asked me to help him with his fly casting. He WANTED help, so I told him how it was done, because I (like to think) know what I'm talking about.
Hmm,well "fly casting " caused me to have a self inflicted pierced ear when I was about 13 years old .:O

As far as telling people how to cut ,tune saws whatever .If they ask,I tell .If not I let sleeping dogs lie . For that matter I've seen a lot of slanted back cuts and 3 feet high stumps .Looks stupid but hey ,it's their trees ,not mine .
 
B

Bounce

Guest
Unless this is a real good friend, Mmy advice is keep your trap shut unless they ask you for advice. In my experience, when it comes to the macho business of cutting a tree down most guys get offended when you criticize their methods. You have do be able to disconnect your ego to take this kind of advice, and that's not something most men are good at (myself included in spite of my best efforts sometimes).
 

Ax-Man

Don't make me chop you
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
705
Location
N.E. Illinois
I wouldn't offer advice either unless they ask. Most do it yourselfers think they know all there is to know as it is. Giving advice on how to do it will not be recieved very well. I have been there before with a former hard headed know it all neighbor I used to live next to that took him an hour to saw through a 24 in. stump. Drove me nuts listening to him punish that poor saw on a Sunday afternoon.

Most people have enough common sense to know when they get in over their heads and will ask for help from a pro. That is when you politely just do your thing and make it look easy to the uneducated in trees and reap the harvest of praises bestowed onto you for helping them out, for money of course or a good trade of some some sort. There are always a few out there that don't know their limits and end up getting hurt.
 
R

RIVERRAT

Guest
Send them a copy of Gerry B's book and a six pack......then they will be friendly and open to advice. If that doesn't work say " outta my way bitches, lemme show yu'ins how to do it"
& Screem YAHOOO!!!:lol:
 
W

William Greene

Guest
here's one to be enjoyed by ones that know how to cut.


where did it land?
well it missed the house(barely)!!!!
 

TC3

Headache !
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
1,505
Location
Michigan
I went out to my landlord's place to drop off the rent check & stood out in the front of his place chatting with his wife. We stood next to a huge dead Ash tree right next to the house. It's about 36" dbh, 'bout 60' tall. Julie (landlady) said her husband Mark had just purchased a chainsaw especially for this ash tree & was going to cut it down himself. The $350 they were quoted by a local co. to flop it was too much, she said.
The right notch & back cut will see it off in their woodline, albeit smashing a few decent trees.
Julie commented that Mark has taken out a dozen trees or more on their property already. Glancing around the property, I saw a few stumps no bigger than a waste basket & all with slanted cuts (homeowner-style) and tried not to wince.
I let Julie know that I'd be glad to have one o' my tree friends come out & lend Mark a hand with flopping it. There's no wayz the guy would hear of me helping out, so I went 'there' with the whole friend-o-mine thing.
It's a tough call, trying to gently guide people.
 

Ax-Man

Don't make me chop you
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
705
Location
N.E. Illinois
Geez, I would think that $350 would be cheap compared to the price of a new decent saw that would big enough to handle a tree that size. Even with another $100 tacked on to cut the big stuff up would still bring you under the price of a new saw.

This doesn't surprize me though with the way work and bidding jobs has gone this year.
 
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