SNIPE

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sierratree

sierratree

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Anyone have a good pic of a snipe? When do you use one? Is it like a soft dutchman?
 
A snipe will influence how the butt of the tree leaves the stump and how close or how far it lands from the stump. From what I understand, it is predominantly (today) used on humboldt undercuts. In the misery whip days in some areas, it was used on the conventional undercut.

As an example, you can use a narrow than average humboldt, with a steep (I think in Jerry's book he refers to it as obtuse?) snipe. The face closes, holding wood breaks, and the butt rides down the snipe. Hope that makes sense.

The pros will be along shortly to further elaborate.
 
Sorry Boys: No pros yet. Just me for now. I think that that's just a NorCal term, for any diagonal opening whatsoever. Generally, them old-growth guys wld have to knock out a pretty substantial gap in the face to maximize the holding of all that beautiful, but brashy heartwood. Then, I believe, they referred to whatever diagonal cut was used--whether up or down--as the snipe. I cld be wrong.

Forestryworks: I think that the "obtuse" snipe is when--using a gap--the diagonal is sawn-in much closer to the hinge on one corner than on the other in an attempt to slip the ass end of the log to one particular side of the stump. (Because of better ground for the log.)

I'd be really interested to hear from Jer about whether he had personally tried that one too often, and what success he might have gotten out of it.
 
For being such a small word volumes can be said about the snipe. As it is called when used in conjunction with the diagonal cut, humboldt style.

The snipe can be sawn partially into the stump and it can be sawn fully into the stump. It can be sawn shallow in angle and it can be steep in angle. The snipe can provide a square edge for the butt of the tree to break off the stump. and it can provide a ramp for the butt of a tree to slip off of the stump. When sawn off the butt of the tree,, the snipe is referred to as a scarf. And what can work for a snipe can work for a scarf too, but in opposite ways.

for the most part the snipe is used to get the butt of a tree off the stump and take lead in the fall. And this can make all the difference in saving a tree from breaking in a bad lay. Or more precisely where the butt has a long ways to reach the ground.

The snipe and scarf can alter the face opening to minor or major degrees. Often very subtlely for the most part, but even when that is the case it can still have pronounced effects in how a tree leaves its stump and lays out. In any case the exact effect that we want from the snipe is always going to be situation dependent and sometimes the true need for it is can be a debatable matter.

In a nutshell it's mechanics and timing,,, and a good imagination to foresee the possibilities in a trees fall. the mechanics of the felling cut can be understood more easily through demonstrations than by elaborating about it. Because it's all theory so much gets lost in translation.
 
gf beranek said:
For being such a small word volumes can be said about the snipe. As it is called when used in conjunction with the diagonal cut, humboldt style.

The snipe can be sawn partially into the stump and it can be sawn fully into the stump. It can be sawn shallow in angle and it can be steep in angle. The snipe can provide a square edge for the butt of the tree to break off the stump. and it can provide a ramp for the butt of a tree to slip off of the stump. When sawn off the butt of the tree,, the snipe is referred to as a scarf. And what can work for a snipe can work for a scarf too, but in opposite ways.

for the most part the snipe is used to get the butt of a tree off the stump and take lead in the fall. And this can make all the difference in saving a tree from breaking in a bad lay. Or more precisely where the butt has a long ways to reach the ground.

The snipe and scarf can alter the face opening to minor or major degrees. Often very subtlely for the most part, but even when that is the case it can still have pronounced effects in how a tree leaves its stump and lays out. In any case the exact effect that we want from the snipe is always going to be situation dependent and sometimes the true need for it is can be a debatable matter.

In a nutshell it's mechanics and timing,,, and a good imagination to foresee the possibilities in a trees fall. the mechanics of the felling cut can be understood more easily through demonstrations than by elaborating about it. Because it's all theory so much gets lost in translation.
Click to expand...

Exactly, word for word what I was going to say:/:

:lol:
 
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i was waiting for someone to get in the bird. touche.
 
Get 'The Fundamentals' book, you will be glad you did. Drawings can be better than pics. I believe one quote in there can be enough to make the whole purchase valuable.
 
I second what Jay (woodworkingboy) said. Best technical tree book ever. Someone like you (sierratree) would stare--merely at the pictures of Jer's face-cuts!--for hours. Indispensable book. Beautiful too.
 
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  • #16
gonna get the book.................been using a snipe not knowing there was a name for it.........but yeah, this book is definietly on my to get list..........
 
If you pause at the right moment, you can see part of the "full snipe" I placed on this tree. It ain't the best showing, but maybe it helps a little.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ml9i52dZFZ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's a close up of the stump. Can still see the little shelf from the block face I first put in, before sniping.
179244_492964140886_513110886_6673365_6828256_n.jpg
 
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  • #22
So, was the block face in your vid a typical size, or do they vary in size? Kind of thought I've seen them the height of the bar, etc.
 
Jay's correct; there's a partial snipe and a full snipe, depending on the need. One must be carefull to hold their hinge, especially on a full snipe.

Snipes allow the butt to fall closer to the tree, a full snipe especially so.
 
sierratree said:
So, was the block face in your vid a typical size, or do they vary in size? Kind of thought I've seen them the height of the bar, etc.
Click to expand...

Here's a pic of my block face, before cleaning it out with the saw and putting the snipe in.

Different than the normal block face I suppose. Sorry I can't answer your first question in more detail; I've only cut timber in CO and OK, and did hazard tree falling in CO, OK, and TX. The only block faces I've seen in person were the few that I've cut, :lol:

Edit: Just did some thinking. I guess this is more of a gap face than a block face. I've heard the two terms used interchangeably though.

296604_10150272648805887_513110886_8263345_655045_n.jpg
 
Gap face or block out, there's really not that much difference between the two. While they will vary a bit in appearance the end effect is almost always the same.

Sierra, I can get you the fundamentals at half cost, but you might consider getting Douglas Dent's book too. The climbers companion is a good reference also. Send me your address and I'll send you the fundamentals. It needs a lot of up dating, especially in the climbing tools sections, but the cutting techniques and understandings that go with them are pretty standard throughout the industry.

It's a wood fiber thing.
 
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