Side loading snaps

[emr]

It's pretty much universally accepted that side loading or cross loading biners significantly weaken them but does the same thing apply to snaps? I have steel snaps on all of my lanyards and they get twisted in some pretty crazy positions some times and I commonly cinch it off on fairly small diameter limbs. How concerned should I be? For whatever reason, it's not a big deal to me.

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[pantheraba]

I'll be curious to hear the replies. I remember reading here in the past that someone said the side D's were "not for life support, just positioning". That struck me as a bit odd since we do use them for life support all the time...maybe they meant not to hang from (granted that is not comfortable) but they do sometimes hold all my weight in the tree.

So I am interested in not just the side/cross loading of snaps answers but also the simple question "are saddle D's for life support?" (maybe whoever made that statement in the past was wrong). I am kind of hijacking your question...if you want to keep them separate let me know and we'll start another topic.

 

[flushcut]

You should be fine as a secondary tie in even a biner cross loaded can hold body weight. Tho I would inspect it often.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Try to damage an old snap. See how far you get. Try to damage an old biner. See how far you get.

I doubt side D's are not rated. I think it has to be that they aren't meant to hang from, as they don't engage the leg loops.

 

[emr]

It's all good to take this in other directions.... That's what the TH is known for after all. I actually emailed PenSafe to ask them. I'll post any response I get, if I get one.
PenSafe is the co that makes my favorite snap. From everything I hear, they are a top notch co out of Canada.

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[SouthSoundTree]

They will say don't do it. Only end load.

A snap is one solid piece of steel, with a moving gate that is the weak point, if loaded against it. The carabiner has the gate integrated into the structure. The gate is the weak point.

Running a snap up a rope might abrade the rope across the top of the gate, whereas a bowline run up, or a quick link might be an improvement. Some guy started leaving half a box wrench on the quicklink, trapping his tool for opening and closing it.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

It's pretty much universally accepted that side loading or cross loading biners significantly weaken them but does the same thing apply to snaps? I have steel snaps on all of my lanyards and they get twisted in some pretty crazy positions some times and I commonly cinch it off on fairly small diameter limbs. How concerned should I be? For whatever reason, it's not a big deal to me.

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If you are up close while cinching, rather than running up a choke with the snap, you can add a prussic'ed on loop of tech cord to your lanyard, so that you can clip into it, perhaps after doing a 540 degree wrap. Have you seen this?

 

[emr]

I had a mini prussic on my lanyard when I was using Vortex but I knicked it with my Silky so I'm back to my favorite old 5/8 3 strand lanyard. And that's too big for my prussic.

I have a delta with a box wrench on it for SRT cinching anchors..... Love it. But that's too much messing around for a lanyard. And your right, if I get a reply they will probably say load it only the long way. But that's unfortunately not real life.

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[emr]

The other thing is that snaps don't rely of the gate for strength, right? So I would think cross loading would have less of an effect on strength loss. Compared to a biner that relies on the gate for strength.

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[SouthSoundTree]

Yes, IMO. If the cinch rolls up against the gate (relying on the gate strength), you could be in trouble, but if its set and checked in a good choke, I think that you're going to be hard pressed to break it. A slip and shockload with little rope in the system, with a bad leverage point...dunno. I choke a steel biner.

About a dynamic fall, my MS 360 slipped off my saddle hook (taped open for MS200t), dropping with enough force to start to deploy my tear-away lanyard. I hardly felt it. Might have transferred mostly to my TIP. I was using HTP, so not much stretch in the climbline to absorb energy. Choice of lanyard rope is a factor.

With a rope lanyard, having enough for a RB, clipping the snap as a backup knot seems easy. 4-5 seconds extra for the RB.