Blue Oak Cabling Contender??

[CurSedVoyce]

Prospective new client had me look at his blue oak this evening. Large leader over the roof of a rental. The tree really is an eye catcher and quite large. It suffered from a fire maybe 15 years ago and is cat faced on the side away from the structure. Good compartmentalization of older wounds. Tree seems vigorous and just contains the regular dead wood you would see in an oak. There were some limbs removed at the crotch where the two main leaders originate. Looks a tad hollow there. Some fungus on the exposed heart wood on the one side, but looks rather superficial. Seeing a lot of this fungus due to all the water we took over the last two years.
Thinking of going with tree guard. Customer likes the idea. Customer really wants to save the tree.
Leader over roof is about 16-18 diameter.
Probably treat the fungus? Or is it treatable? No sign of any fruiting bodies anywhere else. No excess water source near the tree.
Feed back would be appreciated
I did give him Stehanson's number in case he wanted a second opinion and full write up.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

The more I read up on this fungus... Laetiporus sulphureus ? Perhaps? The more I feel like I should push more for removal.
I more or less laid it out straight to him that this is not a good sign.

 

[treesandsurf]

Wow, cool tree Stephan. I love seeing photos from your area, you have great trees and cool work.

First things first is to find out how much decay you've got at the root collar. If the tree has no solid root system, then cabling will be moot. I would do a RCX first, see how significant the decay is to the main structural roots at the base. If the tree seems to be walling off the decay well, then there may be more hope for the leaders in the crown. Use a steel probe and soil knife and toothbrush for the RCX. A small shovel and blower are valuable too.

It's hard to see the branch union in your photo; does the decay spread into the union? Signs of included bark? Is the decay on the trunk on the compression or tension side? What is the percentage on average of the opening compared to the diameter of the trunk? Can you get a rough idea of the shell wall thickness by probing with a steel probe, cow mallet or even core drilling?

How did you ID the fungus?

jp

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I need to go back and do an RCX yet, I did not have a lot of time tonight as I told the customer I had soccer tonight... We are going to touch base again tomorrow to set up more time to look at the tree further. The area that looks hollow where they took two limbs off in the past at the main crotch of the tree is hard to see with out climbing it. Could not see any signs of fungus though. Again, I need to get more up close and personal. Binocs just don't cut it sometimes
A lot of trunk left yet I would have to see about boring into it to see how much wood might have been compromised. HO told me this is the first time he has ever seen any fruiting bodies on the trunk. Root flare looks pretty clean with what minimal dirt removal I could do with limited time. No included bark at the main union. Pretty nice structure actually. As far as compression or tension side of tree... Looking at the tree, it is pretty balanced and the favor is about 90 degrees out by my reckoning. So it would be a split on that subject. Shell wall, if it is reflective of the compartmentalization I saw at the infected wound.. about 6 inches or more. Again, as you suggested.. probing would be good for a more exact figure. Judging by the vigor of the tree, I suspect I will find very little issue with the RCX. Just my feeling.
As far as ID, Google at this site UC Davis

 

[woodworkingboy]

We have a similar thing, guess it is a fungus. It is the same shape, white, and quite hard, and grows very slowly. You only get one per area, not vertical rows. The nickname is "Monkeys seat", and it could function in that capacity. The powder from grinding them is said to be a treatment for cancer, people hunt for them and may get a lot of money for collecting. I spied a really big one growing near my shop on an Oak. I wondered how big it was going to get? I wasn't planning on selling it, but one day someone hacked it off. A clean break requires a saw.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Dang .. that is hard! I guess medicinal treatments are common among these fungus. I read the same thing about this one.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

For the fungus, with this color and this shape/cluster, I agree with Laetiporus sulfureus. Lives on soft or hard heartwood on many tree species. You can wait for massive damages before even seeing the first fruit body.
The two past years, I saw it pop-up on big wounds in oaks at my parent's home, first time in 40 years I knew this trees (I was 6 years old when my parents owned this house).

It has a soft body and doesn't last long. It becomes white during the winter and disappears/fall before the spring.
No treatment possible, as the whole heart wood is probably infested.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

When I bore it, a lot of damage could be revealed. I already apprised the HO of this. If the heart wood is more sound, I am reading that fertilizing the roots and keeping them healthier could help keep the infection slowed down? Help establish more root vigor to help the tree?
As far as fungicide... still looking to see if there is even a viable treatment. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I am reading that fertilizing the roots and keeping them healthier could help keep the infection slowed down?

I don't think so. Taking care of the roots and in general term improving the tree's vigor can't affect the infection itself because your fungus is in the heart wood. And this one has no more biological activity. It could be different with a fungus invading the sapwood.
There's a benefit actually in such care : The tree could grow easier and faster, putting more wood (new and sound) around the critical area and compensating part of the strength loss.

For the fungicide, I think it's almost impossible to treat the tree efficiently. The fungus has penetrated very deeply in the tree's structure and on a big vertical extension. An huge volume of wood is contaminated, part of it is funky, but other part is still very hard, nearly no access to it, except maybe with injection like old lumbers treatment. But you should use a high powerful fungicide which could really kill the tree or at least burn the bark.
I 'd love to see some experiments, but it's difficult to do that with customer's trees.

 

[treelooker]

I don't think so. Taking care of the roots and in general term improving the tree's vigor can't affect the infection itself because your fungus is in the heart wood. And this one has no more biological activity. It could be different with a fungus invading the sapwood.
There's a benefit actually in such care : The tree could grow easier and faster, putting more wood (new and sound) around the critical area and compensating part of the strength loss. .

True that. In the pic it looks like the most destabilizing influence on that tree is pruning--those lower limbs removed not only aggravated infection, but made the leaning limb more end-heavy.
Good plan by Burnham; rcx should be paid!

 

[Burnham]

 

[Bodean]

If It was me.
probably reduce the end weight and cable with through bolts.
Then treat with TLC and PHC, and hydrofert it.

or wreck it and reboot.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I should be able to go bore it here soon... HO is still deciding if he wants to pay for a RCX.
Looks like he is just probably just going to let me reduce it, cable it and he will do some fertilizing etc. See if it will buy some time for the tree and mitigate hose damage. Eventually removing the tree. I think he is mostly just covering his butt with his insurance Co.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

SO a little update.. Bump
Back when we first assessed the tree, we actually found it rather sound in root and huge in rind on the compartmentalisation of the wound on the side where the fungus started showing up. We reduced and cabled the section over the shop roof and it held real well over the last two years.
The original HO was selling the property, so this was done on the minimal. Follow up on the two year mark. Well, it's been 3 now. He sold it and gave the new owners our number.. So here is what I did on my birthday
I did the assessment, dead wood on the back side. We found a cracked portion about 1 year old on a major leader over the pump house and water tank. The side we did not cable. We started the reduction today for a bolting and cable. New HO has opted to try and hold onto the tree longer. It is a significant specimen for a blue oak in the area. A significant tree on the property as well near one of the houses on property (main one of course). HO has also changed the area under the tree so less compaction and we will be introducing more organics in the RZ than was possible with the previous owner.
Fodder..... (for Scott's (BOTS) pleasure anyway as he loves Blues )


This one for scale

 

[No_Bivy]

It's cracked? Looks like cobra cable....why use that. Should be steel

 

[CurSedVoyce]

That side is not cracked John, Nor was it. It is what the previous HO wanted almost 3 years ago before he sold it to pacify his insurance Co.
The side that cracked recent was on the pump shed side of the tree. Something we will be addressing next week.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Gnarley!

 

[BOTS]

Nice job Stephen, luv me some blues

look like theres some mistletoe up there, you probly got it though

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Mistletoe alllllllll gonnnnnnnnnne Only a couple of clumps. I am going to try and edit a picture or two to show where the break is. I wish I had a camera up there with me. About a year of compartmentalisation showing along the edges.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Kill that crap!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I'm a gonna sick Guy on you MB ..

 

[MasterBlaster]

Guy likes mistletoe?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Ohhhhhhhhh... the mistletoe...

 

[SimplyArbor]

Wow, cool tree! Looks like a normal sized oak, then having you in there really changes perspective. Good on ya for the preservation route!

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

A good looking tree!