RopeArmour
TreeHouser
Hey Butch Hope you don't mind me asking, what are the targets? Immovables I guess.
All RopeKnight - All The Time
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
OMG LMAO 
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Yes, inmovables.
Reddog
TreeHouser
I'm sure it won't do that much damage.
Ever been sued for damages from a hole in someones head?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I don't care WHAT gets thrown, NOBODY should be in the LZ.
And why wouldn't they be wearing the proper PPE?
And why wouldn't they be wearing the proper PPE?
Reddog
TreeHouser
If you are an employer and it hits the employee launching it you very well could be held liable for all damages and medical.
Oldmilltreecare
TreeHouser
Oh I hear the choir singin' my tune...haha!
BIG SHOT! Love that thing.
Reddog
TreeHouser
It's all about Risk management and possible Litigation.
Very few hard hats or helmets would stop that sharpened bolt from penetrating to your skull.
What PPE do tree climbers wear that would protect the shoulders or back from a pointed steel object falling down on them?
As to risk management of the LZ. Yes agreed, know one should be in the LZ.
But how do we define the LZ? If using a BShot we need to look at how far the projectile can travel if the line were to come off.
So based on my observations just with throw bags, that makes the LZ about the size of a US football field with the added aero qualities of the RN. Which in the residential setting is not usually achievable for me.
Way to much risk litigation for my taste.
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
I understant your point but it doesn't relieve you of your responsibility to act competently.
Sounds like your experiences with bags have been very painful.
You will find the Rk deflects into the tree and not out of it and towards the operator but I am sure this could happen if the operator fires it at a low limb. Not a smart thing!
You only shoot the RK as hard as needs not as hard as physically possible.
Use a sharp knife wrong and it will cut you. Use a throw bag wrong and it will knock the teeth out of your mouth. Use a Rk wrong and the potential for serious injury or death is possible/like a chainsaw, pressurized equip, etc.
Your points lack any real argument.
Sounds like your experiences with bags have been very painful.
You will find the Rk deflects into the tree and not out of it and towards the operator but I am sure this could happen if the operator fires it at a low limb. Not a smart thing!
You only shoot the RK as hard as needs not as hard as physically possible.
Use a sharp knife wrong and it will cut you. Use a throw bag wrong and it will knock the teeth out of your mouth. Use a Rk wrong and the potential for serious injury or death is possible/like a chainsaw, pressurized equip, etc.
Your points lack any real argument.
Reddog
TreeHouser
Your points lack any real argument.
You really are blinded by your product so much to not see the negative issues with launching a 10-12oz pointed Stainless steel projectile into the air around dwellings?
I have had no throw bag incidents, impart based on using good Risk management practices.
I can also tell you have no understanding of the possible litigation your company could face here in the US from an accident that could involve a second or third party.
canadiantreeman
TreeHouser
Yeah, there have been instances when I am thankful for the fact that it is a throwbag not a throw missile. Last week, as a matter of fact, I threw off target and the bag came down on a deck...and I've seen guys throw it backwards into all sorts of things, like windshields...which a throwbag did no damage to. If it were a rope knight...different story. Not to mention that the throwbag has a tendancy to stick the landing, so to speak, given the design of the RK I could imagine that it might bounce around a little more.
For me, in 9 years of being a production arborist, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had my throwball stuck. Out of likely thousands of throws. I don't see how spending multiples of money for a product that I really have no trouble with will end up in me making more money down the line. I'm not saying I'm the best throwballer around, but I've worked with guys who have gotten so frustrated trying to set a line that they pass the buck to me. I can 'zen' out. If that doesn't work, I have a Big Shot.
All this said, I'd like to give it a go. Maybe it is more accurate, maybe it is the shizzle. My problem is that the only person I see regularly talking it up is the one who designed and sells it.
For me, in 9 years of being a production arborist, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had my throwball stuck. Out of likely thousands of throws. I don't see how spending multiples of money for a product that I really have no trouble with will end up in me making more money down the line. I'm not saying I'm the best throwballer around, but I've worked with guys who have gotten so frustrated trying to set a line that they pass the buck to me. I can 'zen' out. If that doesn't work, I have a Big Shot.
All this said, I'd like to give it a go. Maybe it is more accurate, maybe it is the shizzle. My problem is that the only person I see regularly talking it up is the one who designed and sells it.
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
Try reading my last post.
Try a RopeKnight before you speculate.
Try reading the Specific Instructions, Disclaimer and Helpful tips and hints that come with every RopeKnight
Try watching our videos on Youtube and FB.
Here is what we have done. We are the only manufacturer that provides safe handling instructions and videos, face book page, forum dialogue etc. We have developed a system for "Safe Retrieval" of RopeKnight or any weight for that matter. Another first.
We have actually made throwing weights in trees safer with Protectors and a smooth and efficient system. Foam and rubber is safer than a shot bag. The vinyl and rubber is fine for throwing over most homes or landscapes. Hit the tree for Petes sake.
Operator error is what it is but of all the throw weights we are the only one with instructions.
We have gone further than anyone in the industry in term of safe throw lining. Including TCI or ISA etc
Possible litigation is BS. You are resposnible for your actions.
How many teeth and fractures and injuries are caused by throw bags over the years. How many workers are being poisoned by toxic lead shot?
Would you say "too dangerous" "call my Lawyer" about a man sized slingshot, chainsaws, rope access tools?
You see bullet and most see magic bullet/RopeKnight.
I don't want to argue the points but you haven't even given it an honest try.
Anyone reading this will see that your fear is based on what? Not practical or academic knowledge.
Cheers
Try a RopeKnight before you speculate.
Try reading the Specific Instructions, Disclaimer and Helpful tips and hints that come with every RopeKnight
Try watching our videos on Youtube and FB.
Here is what we have done. We are the only manufacturer that provides safe handling instructions and videos, face book page, forum dialogue etc. We have developed a system for "Safe Retrieval" of RopeKnight or any weight for that matter. Another first.
We have actually made throwing weights in trees safer with Protectors and a smooth and efficient system. Foam and rubber is safer than a shot bag. The vinyl and rubber is fine for throwing over most homes or landscapes. Hit the tree for Petes sake.
Operator error is what it is but of all the throw weights we are the only one with instructions.
We have gone further than anyone in the industry in term of safe throw lining. Including TCI or ISA etc
Possible litigation is BS. You are resposnible for your actions.
How many teeth and fractures and injuries are caused by throw bags over the years. How many workers are being poisoned by toxic lead shot?
Would you say "too dangerous" "call my Lawyer" about a man sized slingshot, chainsaws, rope access tools?
You see bullet and most see magic bullet/RopeKnight.
I don't want to argue the points but you haven't even given it an honest try.
Anyone reading this will see that your fear is based on what? Not practical or academic knowledge.
Cheers
canadiantreeman
TreeHouser
Hey, send one out for a demo, if I like it I'll buy it.
Other than that, I have no need to replace something, that for me at least, is not broken.
Other than that, I have no need to replace something, that for me at least, is not broken.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Reddog
TreeHouser
Again you have no concept or understanding of the use of Risk management as a business tool.
I don't need to use it to asses it in a liability assessment which is a tool used in you guessed it Risk management.
Again you have no understand of second and third party suites were some one other than the end user was injured. Your instructions and videos will mean little to nothing to a jury looking at a injured bystander or property damage.
A jury will see it portrayed as a projectile by the attorneys.
Welcome to corporate liability law in the US. And yes you are liable here because you make your product available here.
Have you ever studied US law on using health benefits to sell your product. The FDA could make you prove your claims of death by toxic lead poisoning caused from the use of lead throw bags.
Now not to mention if a worker gets injured in the UK and HSE gets involved.
I am done here, you seem to feel you are immune because of the design have fun with that.
I don't need to use it to asses it in a liability assessment which is a tool used in you guessed it Risk management.
Again you have no understand of second and third party suites were some one other than the end user was injured. Your instructions and videos will mean little to nothing to a jury looking at a injured bystander or property damage.
A jury will see it portrayed as a projectile by the attorneys.
Welcome to corporate liability law in the US. And yes you are liable here because you make your product available here.
Have you ever studied US law on using health benefits to sell your product. The FDA could make you prove your claims of death by toxic lead poisoning caused from the use of lead throw bags.
Now not to mention if a worker gets injured in the UK and HSE gets involved.
I am done here, you seem to feel you are immune because of the design have fun with that.
Oldmilltreecare
TreeHouser
That's so unfair dude. Thomas appears enthusiastic about the RK.
As far as litigation is concerned or the risk of a RK piercing a person in the LZ under a tree: I would not use a cruise missile to shoot a rabbit. I would not use a BigShot for and Apple tree. I would not use a Space Shuttle to go to the super market.
Use the right tool for the job in the manner that it was designed for and to suit your own abilities and you will be ok.
Act like an idiot or use throw weights in confined high target areas when you have little experience or skill, you're going to get in trouble.
It's the decision of the operator to choose his tools correctly.
I thought this was an information sharing forum not a slagging off forum.
Just my opinion though, others may vary.
Oldmilltreecare
TreeHouser
That made me laugh!
I think Thomas is pretty good natured and I think anybody would get their back up if others were telling you your kid was an ugly duckling.
I've only got a throwbag stuck one time that resulted in destruction . (It got destroyed after pulling the throwline with the truck, lol). Much more common is the scenario where the climbing line or rigging line won't install through a tight crotch.
btw. Thomas, I got around to making a couple of them tight crotch navigators out of a 1" fid. Still haven't tried one to see if it is a help or useless.
ATTACH=CONFIG]47027[/ATTACH]
No suprise if an eventual lawsuit arises from an errant missile er, Treepedo launch. Spill a hot coffee on yer crotch and you can sue McDonalds for millions.
I've only got a throwbag stuck one time that resulted in destruction . (It got destroyed after pulling the throwline with the truck, lol). Much more common is the scenario where the climbing line or rigging line won't install through a tight crotch.
btw. Thomas, I got around to making a couple of them tight crotch navigators out of a 1" fid. Still haven't tried one to see if it is a help or useless.
ATTACH=CONFIG]47027[/ATTACH]
No suprise if an eventual lawsuit arises from an errant missile er, Treepedo launch. Spill a hot coffee on yer crotch and you can sue McDonalds for millions.
Attachments
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
That my friend is a how it all began.
I then used that over the squished ring of my throw bag and found it still getting stuck and
so I made another ropeshield and coupled them together and bam RopeKnight.
Hope it works well for you but it does look longish,
i'm sure that is what all the ladys says.
I then used that over the squished ring of my throw bag and found it still getting stuck and
so I made another ropeshield and coupled them together and bam RopeKnight.
Hope it works well for you but it does look longish,
i'm sure that is what all the ladys says.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I've got throw bags stuck but never broke anything with it. But there have been times I am happy it was not a chunk of metal. A couple metal roofs come to mind. Would have put a hole in them. Made a noise by god. Just missing catching the line after the shot was all it took .... It happens..
I just carry more than one cube with more than one weight and more than one line in the truck. OH DEAR it got stuck.... Shoot another, climb up and get it. NO BIGGIE.... Seriously. Worse getting your FS stuck at the end of the day. Wraptor handles that just fine as well
My thought is that product of yours is going to help me out with tight crotched deep and flakey barked pines and what not. Not near a house (immovable target). But one I am going to have to pull over or climb to reduce. When I finally get to try it.. I'll let you know.
I will say you have the zeal of a hella salesman. Belief in your product is of utmost importance to be able to sell it. Kudos.
I just carry more than one cube with more than one weight and more than one line in the truck. OH DEAR it got stuck.... Shoot another, climb up and get it. NO BIGGIE.... Seriously. Worse getting your FS stuck at the end of the day. Wraptor handles that just fine as well
My thought is that product of yours is going to help me out with tight crotched deep and flakey barked pines and what not. Not near a house (immovable target). But one I am going to have to pull over or climb to reduce. When I finally get to try it.. I'll let you know.
I will say you have the zeal of a hella salesman. Belief in your product is of utmost importance to be able to sell it. Kudos.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Me too. Priceless!
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
Bigshoting over House and Garage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHSWSaOlhkM
Throwing over a house and Garage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Rs-CbpKwg
Safe retrieval https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muIPHPDRduA
You can see, all you need is to hit the tree. And with ease, safely retrieve because the RopeKnight is your knot in shining armour.
Throwing over a house and Garage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Rs-CbpKwg
Safe retrieval https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muIPHPDRduA
You can see, all you need is to hit the tree. And with ease, safely retrieve because the RopeKnight is your knot in shining armour.
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
REDDOG in red
Again you have no concept or understanding of the use of Risk management as a business tool.
Risk Management as a busines tool? Will you explain this to us? And what it is that makes you think that we are unaware.
I don't need to use it to asses it in a liability assessment which is a tool used in you guessed it Risk management.
Yes you do and to have full knowledge of its use and associated information.
Again you have no understand of second and third party suites were some one other than the end user was injured. Your instructions and videos will mean little to nothing to a jury looking at a injured bystander or property damage.
A jury will see it portrayed as a projectile by the attorneys.
Lawyers and Insurance companies will get their money is that what you are trying to say? Thanks for the reminder! You’re not much help in this regard.
Welcome to corporate liability law in the US. And yes you are liable here because you make your product available here.
Thank you for the welcome
Have you ever studied US law on using health benefits to sell your product. The FDA could make you prove your claims of death by toxic lead poisoning caused from the use of lead throw bags.
Correction please, we have made no claims of death by toxic lead poisoning, LEAD poisoning from the use of LEAD throw bags YES. Go to the threads/polls and see for yourself the proof is staring you right in the face if you are willing to open your eyes.
I am done here, you seem to feel you are immune because of the design have fun with that.
I am very sorry you feel this way. This conversation is probably the most important to us to date.
Please rethink this and rejoin the dialogue.
If you only knew! We have made countless emails, phone calls and trips to the associated govt and private bodies/ dept in the US, Canada, UK, EU etc in this regard. Many with the same cop out. Fund an industry specific study. Posting polls, sharing information, taking examples from other industries that handle LEAD etc. does not seem to be enough. No one is going to look after us if we can’t past all the BS. I am attempting to create a solution to a problem if you can’t see the problem then the tool is not for you but please do not muddy the waters especially since you have never tried it or cared for the information we have provided.
Wish you all the best Red Dog.
Again you have no concept or understanding of the use of Risk management as a business tool.
Risk Management as a busines tool? Will you explain this to us? And what it is that makes you think that we are unaware.
I don't need to use it to asses it in a liability assessment which is a tool used in you guessed it Risk management.
Yes you do and to have full knowledge of its use and associated information.
Again you have no understand of second and third party suites were some one other than the end user was injured. Your instructions and videos will mean little to nothing to a jury looking at a injured bystander or property damage.
A jury will see it portrayed as a projectile by the attorneys.
Lawyers and Insurance companies will get their money is that what you are trying to say? Thanks for the reminder! You’re not much help in this regard.
Welcome to corporate liability law in the US. And yes you are liable here because you make your product available here.
Thank you for the welcome
Have you ever studied US law on using health benefits to sell your product. The FDA could make you prove your claims of death by toxic lead poisoning caused from the use of lead throw bags.
Correction please, we have made no claims of death by toxic lead poisoning, LEAD poisoning from the use of LEAD throw bags YES. Go to the threads/polls and see for yourself the proof is staring you right in the face if you are willing to open your eyes.
I am done here, you seem to feel you are immune because of the design have fun with that.
I am very sorry you feel this way. This conversation is probably the most important to us to date.
Please rethink this and rejoin the dialogue.
If you only knew! We have made countless emails, phone calls and trips to the associated govt and private bodies/ dept in the US, Canada, UK, EU etc in this regard. Many with the same cop out. Fund an industry specific study. Posting polls, sharing information, taking examples from other industries that handle LEAD etc. does not seem to be enough. No one is going to look after us if we can’t past all the BS. I am attempting to create a solution to a problem if you can’t see the problem then the tool is not for you but please do not muddy the waters especially since you have never tried it or cared for the information we have provided.
Wish you all the best Red Dog.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Thomas, I haven't tried the Rope Knight so I'm not going to make any comments on it. But I do want to let you know that I'm all behind you on reducing the amount of lead, or any other toxic substance, released into our environment.
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