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Winch bed and trailer build

Tree09

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Alrighty, got a question. As much as I'm not above trying to reinvent the wheel cause i think i can do better, i try to copy the wheel as much as possible and let someone ese figure it out. So i buy the rigging hardware i needed, and it seems that all of the trucks simply feed the cable through a chunk of chain, and then put a wedge type stop on the end. It obviously isn't a straight line pull, but it obviously works because it's what they seem to all do.

Screenshot_20190921-160539_YouTube.jpg

Screenshot_20190921-153541_YouTube.jpg

So my question is this, these are only for wire core rope right? Or can i use them in fiber core? Can i put a chunk of wire in the core to use it, maybe rolled back some distance first? I happened to get some deeply discounted wire rope from a neighbor, but it's fiber core. I was planning on 7/16 wire, but this stuff is 1/2 inch. Now the only reason i was even considering fiber core is because if the flexibility, as this will be running over sheaves it's whole life. As I'm not familiar with these wedge things, could some loggers here clue me in on their ins and outs? Worst case i just get different wire rope and use the half inch on something else, but i would like some input on guys that have been there.
 

Tree09

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Thx man, i figured we have some awesome old school loggers here that could clue me in. I think if i rolled in a couple feet of a same size wire as a core it would work fine, from what i understand the wedge just needs the core to hold it in position to wedge the wires against the ferrule. Or maybe more knowledgable people here will inform me that i should be using wire core rope in the first place. I would use amsteel, but at 3.50 a foot vs a buck or so it's not really worth it as far as i can tell. It would be different if i was using it as a winch truck day in and day out, but for my uses I'm having a hard time justifying it. I could also just splice a hook on and be done with it, although i was thinking the chain on the end would be handy for certain things. I could also just splice an eye and shackle it to the chain.
 

flushcut

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I have the wedge type stops on some FSE chokers that I have beat on pretty good and they are still holding. Not sure about fiber core use but a short shopping tour of the Crosby catalog will yield an answer I am sure. Jerry, Burnham, or Justin will have an answer.
 

squisher

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No help from me. I've used those wedges plenty(along time ago now) but I don't know that I've ever seen a fibre core wire rope before?
 

squisher

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The one thing I do know about those wedge and knob(or socket) terminations are they are more than up to the job of withstanding incredible pulling forces when used in their proper configuration. Once properly 'set' I never saw one fail. And always removeavle and re-useable to cut off the ratty end or change out a mainline.
 

Marc-Antoine

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I'm very far from an old school logger, I still have to open my mouth.:D
Mechanically, it doesn't look good to me. The non in-line thing is a real concern. Even this can hold in your application, why down-grading your setup?
From the choker sling's pics I saw, the sliding part makes an angle to give an Y shape, but the wire rope pulls in line on the stopper end.
I'd splice an eye on the line with the chain directly in it, or as you said with a shackle to mount either the chain or a hook alone as needed.
 

Tree09

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:lol: fiber core is the most common type in 6x construction i guess, we use it on tuggers for rigging in building trades. It is more flexible while still having high abrasion resistance, and the fiber core holds oil, which lubricates the rope. It is weaker than iwrc (wire core), and isn't used for logging. The winch will have a small radius, and the pulleys i got are 5", so bend radius is a concern. If you go to a hardware store and buy wire rope, it will be fiber core.

Marc-Antoine, i agree it isn't a good looking setup. The rigger in me actually cringes at it :lol: However, it's how they rig them, and they then use them as cranes to assemble multi million dollar drilling rigs, using 1.25 to 1.5 inch cable. Dropping those components is not acceptable, and that is what they've determined works best. I thought about doing a wedge anchor setup, like a crane would have. This would also allow easy trimming of the end. My best guess is since the loads are winched over the rolling tailboard, it would impart a very large side loading, so this setup actually might work best because it can go over the 4.5 inch roller. From what i understand tow trucks do the same thing with the chain and the wedge ferrule. From what i can tell from looking at pictures, my blocks will actually be larger d measurements than what the big boys use.

The chain would also be handy in use i think. If i need a headache weight to get the line to spool out, all i would need to do is clip a weight on the chain with a grab hook. I can weld on grab hooks to speed up gin pole adjustments, because i chose to use a chain adjustment for them. I got 5/16 100 proof rigging chain, which will allow 1/2 rope to fit through and is actually rated even higher than the rope. When winching on skids, it might be best to use a grab hook connection, rather than side loading my expensive safety hook. I've seen them ruined by side loading before, so that might be an option as well.
 

Marc-Antoine

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I thought of pure lifting/dragging, not the skid use with the wire rope bending and pulling the attachment over the roller. That makes sense.
 

Tree09

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I totally agree tho, it looks terrible!!!! But it's what the guys that run these do, so there must be a reason on that.
 

Tree09

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I was hoping for something easily field replaceable, but i could pour a spelter one too. Good call Bob, thanks.
 

BlackSmith

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It would pull straight on the wire rope and replaceable in the field unlike a swedged termination. Just a thought. A Crane becket would work too if one just happened to fall off a truck somewhere, they do that... :)
 

Tree09

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I was worried about the side loading on a wedge becket... i will be dragging it over a pipe roller, 90 degree angle. Should i just be running iwrc rope Bob? Maybe fc isn't the best choice, and should i go to a 25 or 37 stand for flexibility?
 

BlackSmith

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Are we talking about rope rope or wire rope(cable)..? I’d check with a small local crane service, see if they have any no-spin cable laying around they just replaced. Might have to sign a waiver. Tell’em you’re using it to pull with not lift. No-spin is pretty flexible.
 

Tree09

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Wire rope. I have half inch fiber core, so i was hoping to use that. I was wondering if the wedge ferrule stops i have would work since they are designed for wire core, so I'm likely going to split the rope like i was going to make a molly Hogan, replacing a couple of feet of fiber core with a wire core, then rolling it back together and installing the wedge stop. The stops i have are for 7/16 to 9/16 wire, so there is a pretty large tolerance there for it all to work properly. I'm got some stuff to make logging chokers too, so I'll be doing a few of these. Good idea about asking crane outfits for left over cable, that would work for some other projects.... anything bigger than a broderson would be unusable for this winch. I think i know of a spot where to go get some dragline cable too.....
 

squisher

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The wedge and socket setup is easily field serviceable and I had such faith in it I would literally trust my life to it on a regular basis when riding the rigging. Illegal to do up here. After you watch everything pull out multiple thousand pound loads of logs all day long it becomes hard to see how it'll fail under a 200pd ride. This wedge and socket was the termination of the mainline on the last yarder I worked with for five years which was rated at 46,000pds(I believe it was? Maybe only 36k? Anyways, a lot)of pull with a 4spd tranny. I think they're used because they work. Our skyline had a spliced eye in the end for wrapping the tailhold and let me tell you. The splice that we had to do to replace that eye was a living hell to do compared with knocking off a wedge and socket to cut back some ratted mainline.

Now again, I only used the wedge and socket on cable that it was designed to be used on.
 

Tree09

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:thumbup: thanks guys. I'm gonna try three redneck way on some chokers and see what happens, I'll probably just get iwrc for the winch line
 
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