Which Way Will it Fall?

[Old Monkey]

No, I said what you guys said, that it would fall away from the cut roots. I think he felt it would start leaning that way. His line of thinking is along the lines of Guy's theory of trees growing at angle because of girdling roots on the lean side. I was basing my argument on failed trees I have seen.

Fran's its "Shrodinger's cat" and I didn't say that my tree was inside a box with no one to see it. If it was the tree would be both standing and fallen over at the same time until someone opened the box.

 

[Rotax Robert]

A few I asked here at work and most missed it albeit they are not tree guys.

good thread

 

[Tom_Scheller]

Roots are not like pillars holding up the Coliseum. They are more like guy wires holding up a cell phone tower.

Isn't it the opposite? It's true, roots do anchor, but they primarily BUTTRESS. I would say that in practice, however, there's always wind and they're never perfectly balanced so if you cut roots, assume that it will land on your head or the nearest Mercedes.

TS

 

[Frans]

Thanks Darin

 

[gf beranek]

To solve the problem of getting the stump out of the ground we've rigged the tree to pull it, then cut the roots and yard away with the cat or loader. It takes some, or a lot, of rocking back and forth sometimes. Like pulling a big wisdom tooth.

 

[Mike Maas]

There was a famous observational scientist whose prediction about the direction of fall would be quite different than most of those given so far. Not only do his observations predict the direction, but also the timing of the failure.

This fellow, named Murphy, would predict the tree to fall toward the most expensive target and at the most inopportune moment.

 

[Blinky]

There was a famous observational scientist whose prediction about the direction of fall would be quite different than most of those given so far. Not only do his observations predict the direction, but also the timing of the failure.

This fellow, named Murphy, would predict the tree to fall toward the most expensive target and at the most inopportune moment.

Damn! you took my answer... toward the most expensive target.

 

[arborworks1]

So very true about expensive targets.

 

[Frans]

Was this scientist related to Murphy, Mr. Maas?

 

[TC3]

My first thought was to comment on tension / compaction roots, but it sounds like Leon is right on the mark.
As an afterthought, if you happened to cut the tension root (the larger of the 2) & somehow missed cutting the compaction root (opposite side most often), you'd have a very unpredictable situation on your hands. The tree would most likely fall perpendicular to the tension root.
Just my .02

 

[treelooker]

The tree will NOT fall away from the cable you installed.

"Guy's theory of trees growing at angle because of girdling roots on the lean side."

Not really much of a theory, really more like a few anecdotal observations of trees leaning AWAY from girdling roots; a fairly rare phenomenon in nature.

 

[TC3]

I need a minute to decipher & digest that, Guy. Thanks for posting... it was way too hung up on "Murphy", and I have a distaste for the man.

 

[Old Monkey]

Thanks for the correction Guy.

 

[Mike Maas]

One good technique for removing small stumps, is to leave the stump high, tie a rope to the top and pull with a winch. Then you chop at the roots on the far side. It wouldn't do anything to chop them on the side the winch is pulling.

 

[Stumper]

Mike ,What you wrote Is correct in indicating the most important roots to cut to get a stump to pull but not precisely true. Cutting the rootts on the inboard side will sometimes facilitatethe stump rotating in its bed and either snapping small supporting roots or exposing them for cutting.

It May help to think about this whole cut roots scenario in terms of an undercut/facecut and a back cut. If you place a small uncercut in a spar only in very rare situations (severely compromised wood, hollows, extreme leans, etc) will the spar fall into the face without further work. On the otherhand if you make a full backcut without a facecut the tree will likely fail . Cutting a couple of large roots on one side is equivalent to making a backcut of indeterminate depth. In most situations it isn't enough to allow the tree to fail absent outside forces...but if those roots were a high percentage of support the situation may equate to having cut 85-95% through without a face. -It can fall but may hinge straight off the backcut into the holding strip or roll and tear out on either side.....However, directly back is not likely without some extreme modifying force.

 

[Mike Maas]

That's like comparing apples to frogs.
I don't cut on the pull side because those roots just bend and fail, the roots on the other side are holding in line with the root, they have to be cut.
It's easy to break a small board by bending it, try breaking it by pulling the two ends straight apart.