Walbro carb.

That not killing the spark is not related to the carb nor would it cause it to run away .

Usually it's the ground jumper wire going from the handle to the engine case gets loosened up or broken . Oh every so often you get a coil you can't ground out but it's pretty seldom .

Oh not to worry,every so often everybody gets a saw that acts like a spoiled child and gives you fits .Give it a rest and get back to it after you cool off .;)
 
OK this is the order...gasket metering diaphragm (on the carb) , diaphragm assem'y metering.


Soft diaphragm fuel pump, gasket circuit plate, harder gasket.

The boot is fine.

I just stumbled into this discussion, so let me complicate it some more. ;)
First lets discuss cleaning for current production carbs. In the US it's all about EPA, and even though you are in UK you get the same carb materials on a MS 361 as I do. All these new carbs are way different than they were even 10 years ago. The materials are more delicate to harsh cleaners, and the pump diaphragm materials are made out of MYLAR and other alcohol resistant materials and are not as flexible as older materials, so you never pressure test to pop-off like we used to. Never soak these new carbs in Gunk or any other strong cleaner. Don't even spray choke spray through them as it will ruin the accelerator pump o-ring and H side check valve. The only spray that is safe is a mild brake cleaner spray or electric motor spray. I don't know any other way to test the spray and I am not advocating this as a test, but if it gets in a cut on your finger and it doesn't burn it is OK to use in the carb!
So after tear down and inspection remove the metering screws and spray some of the brake cleaner spray through the H screw hole while holding the throttle open and you should see the spray coming out of the H nozzle sticking out into the venturi. Be sure to put on your safety glasse cause even brake spray burns your eyes. :cry: If no spray comes out the H side is plugged and the main nozzle will need to be driven out and then the carb cleaned and then a new nozzle pressed in or better yet get a new carb because it is probably not worth trying to fix at this point. Now spray through the L metering screw hole and you should see the spray come out of the idle progression holes with the throttle butterfly held open. There are anywhere from two to four of these holes depending on the carb. This is how you verify if the H and L circuits are clear. The L side gets its fuel from the H side, which also feeds fuel to the accelerator pump. The little check valve in the main nozzle can be destroyed by harsh chemicals or by blowing through the circuits with a rubber tipped air gun at 100PSI.
Assembly of the HD on a 361 only has one gasket on the pump side. The diaphragm goes next to the smooth milled carb body so the two check valves can seal against the smooth surface. The gasket goes against the fuel pump cover so the bead on the cover can bite into the gasket. The opposite is how the metering side goes together: gasket to the carb body and diaphragm next to the cover, with the round disc facing towards the wet side or metering side of the carb. Inlet lever is set flush. Once the fuel pump side is together and the inlet needle and lever in pressure test to no higher than 10 PSI. Never do a pop off on current production carbs. Spray some of the brake cleaner on the metering chamber floor if the pressure does not hold to see if it is the needle.
The H check valve works by sealing closed at idle, due to high pressure in the venturi, so no air leaks into the metering chamber messing up the idle mixture. When the throttle is opened up air speed through the venturi lowers the pressure and the check valve opens up and fuel flows through the nozzle into the air stream. The only way to check the nozzle check valve and accelerator pump o-ring is to close both mixture screws, and pull a very slight vacuum at the bypass jet. I take the jet out and use tapered adapter to get down in the bore and pull negative 4 PSI and it should hold steady or not leak down to zero faster than a four count. If the H side is leaking it will not flood, it will screw up the idle mixture. The saw may act something like this: you warm it up, tune the WOT speed with the H screw, let it down to idle and set idle RPM and mess with the L screw for good idle and good throttle response, then rev to WOT again and when you let off it dies. Or it may come down to idle slowly. And you fiddle with the screws and you think it is good and then in two days it is all screwy again because a weather front came through and now the atmospheric pressure has changed slightly.
Just be sure the carb is clear, the diaphragms are not stiff or brittle, and if possible do the vacuum check. If the carb passes these tests then do a pressure/vacuum leak on the crankcase. I posted some pics of how to do this in another thread here I think.
To check the tank vent pull a vacuum on an empty tank and it should leak back to zero fast, but hold pressure. The vent is under a little secret window on the side of the tank housing.
As far as the ignition trouble you mentioned, the module has a micropressor in it and I have seen some weird failures from them. Just do a continuity test at the wires where they connect to the module and be sure the circuit is grounding. Also make sure you have the right resistor plug in the saw. If it is too hot and you have a lean fault that makes it hotter then it will run-on when the spark goes away.
Hope that helps...
 
Eddie, can I interject a question to you, please. What relevance does pop-off pressure have to performance? I've played around with it on my modified saws, but as yet haven't come to any conclusions. Decreasing pop off seems like it could be an advantageous thing.

High Scale, I think that the dealer was telling you that sometimes you can't see the spark, due to looking for it when the lighting conditions are too bright....?

Did you try re-adjusting the mixture screws? That should be your first attempt at a remedy.
 
WWB,
I recall years ago WALBRO saying something like pop off should be between 12 -15 pounds and you tuned it by stretching or shortening the inlet lever spring. This will change the overall fuel flow richer or leaner, since atmospheric pressure pushes the fuel into the venturi when the pressure in the venturi is less than the pressure outside the carb and the dry side of the diaphragm is vented to atmosphere. So if the spring is stiffer (stretched) the diaphragm has to push harder to get the needle open, and not so hard if the spring is soft. I think the Rotax guys still do some tuning this way for ultra-lights and maybe snowmobiles, but it simply does not apply to current production EPA saws.
Take a saw that is running OK, cut a couple loops off the spring and put it back together and it will be running different. It is very important to have the right calibrated spring for the carb being rebuilt, by part number for that carb.
 
Thanks, that's where I first encountered guys modifying pop-off, at an ulta-light site. I made a gauge and started doing it on chainsaws, cutting off coils on the spring. I thought I might get a faster and smoother rate of acceleration. It does affect it, as you mention, I'm just not clear enough if it is worth it, without having some proper testing gear to determine. I have tested a lot of stock pop-off pressures, and have found them to be all over the board, often above 20psi, some considerably higher. 12-15 psi seems about right.

I tried contacting Walbro about it, but they don't seem inclined to offer information on modifying saws.
 
I just redid a HD on a new stihl that the diaphragm with the 2 valve flappers actually had cut 2 round holes where it would ride on the sharp edges of the 2 holes creating small slits in the diaphragm gasket flaps. Never seen that one before.

Symptoms were, Run great on throttle but would shut of on anything except for WOT in a cut. Not idle whatsoever.

Also this new stihl HD Walbro carb was made in Singapore. That was another new one. :|:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
Low speed jet original setting is usually 3/4 to 1 turn out. If you're only 1/4 turn out then it's too lean.

Yup, you are spot on I just adjusted the low speed and it's running fine again.

The HT lead had come lose at the condenser, not all the way out, but enough maybe.

Anyway, you lot are excellent, thanks for all the great help.

I have a muffler with the baffles taken out to put on this saw.:D
 
Hi Highscale

Seems like you got it sorted now but if you need a 361 workshop manual and a carb manual(not walbro but think there is information in there) ive got one floating around on disc just send me a pm here or catch me over at arbtalk

D
 
Carb Tuning

Hi to all. I stumbled on this thread because I too had some fuel running problems on my MS290. I got the rebuild kit and it came with the extra gasket on the diaphragm side. One was paper and the other was rubber. I went with the paper one in the end cause that one seemed to be what the old one was. However, I still had running problems. I thought maybe the jets needed adjusting past the presets, so of course, thinking I know it all, I break the plastic presets off to adjust the jets. I could get it running, but still not right. Then I noticed the fuel line was spittin' fuel. It was dry rot and cracked. I replaced it along with the plug and tank filter and everything runs great now.

Only thing is, how can I be sure I have the L and H screws set right (especially the H) to be sure I don't run it too lean and burn it up. After all, dummy me broke of the plastic presets.

Was wondering what method you guys would use in this situation. I don't have a 13,000 RPM tach either. I'm more of an ear type tuner.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated......
 
Excellent!!
Just what I needed. Thank you Sir.
Kinda what I figured but just wanted to be sure and hear from someone else.
I wonder how much one of those tachs cost?.....
I'll have to check into that.

You are welcome, and I assure I you, I am not a "sir" :lol:
I'm Andy
 
Hey Harry, welcome. Based on your username I was gonna guess your name was Brian. :/:

I agree with Andy, good info on that Madsen's link. I've had it bookmarked for years and always post it up when people are looking for a tutorial on carb adjustments.

-Brian
 
Welcome indeed .Seems there's a lot of Harrys' showing up on the net here of late .:/:

A tach is okay but all it does is check your ear .That saw is going to run where ever it wants too .Those factory specs mean very little in terms of total accuracy . Follow that Madsens link,you'll be good to go .Always err on the side of caution, a tad too rich is better than a bunch too lean .
 
A note on the pop of pressure of the valve...

If you increase pressure in crankcase to get a faster flow or some other reason, you will need to have a tad higher spring pressure to hold valve up.
Usually this is no concern, but a good thing to know and check.

Every carb rebuilt should be pressure tested so you know vale is tight, and spring is Ok.
At the same time you set lever correct. Much easier to get it as close as possible when under pressure..
 
Thanks Brian and thanks Al.

Everything seems to be running good. Back to cutting. Hopefully I'll get it all cut and split before summer this year. Gonna try some creative log pulls this year.
 
Al always was amazed at this WG2 on this 166. It looked like it could swallow a golf ball all the way to piston. Yes intake was opened up that wide too.

Copyof166Dolmar002.jpg
 
I have no doubt that carb was large enough to run an 80 cubic inch Harley .You open it up and look through the bore all you could see was piston, big one .
 
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