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sotc

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heres a big Q. kellogii with some signs of decay. i bid it as a removal, based on the pics would guys do other wise?
 

treelooker

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Yep, that tree looks like it has issues.
All trees, like all people, have issues.

What % of the flare has shrooms? If you pull off dead bark you may see other signs to ID it from.

What % sounds hollow if you hit it with a hammer?

Main issues look like mistletoe and sprawl; fixable by pruning.
 

TheTreeWiseMen

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Looks like Armillaria mellea. What us Brits commonly call Honey fungus. Resistoraph test? I'd probably recommend removal too, considering the targets.
 
F

Frans

Guest
I would not remove that tree just because of that. Only after examining further would I condemn the tree.

Suppose it is just a hunk of wood that is not even attached to the tree that has the mushrooms?

The structure seems to look good from the picture
 

MasterBlaster

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The mistletoe is what does it in for me. You'd NEVER be able to cut it all out, the tree is too infected.
 

SkwerI

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Removal. The rot and decay at the root flair indicates that there is probably much more decay further down in the root system. The dieback in the top and heavy mistletoe also indicate some major root issues. Unless you know of some magical way to kill the fungus and restore health to rotting roots, then it's a removal.

Or you could do a heavy reduction this year and they can be stuck with an ugly, dying stump for a few more years until they finally decide to let it go and put it out of it's misery.
 

sotc

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the mushrooms and decay are spread out about 50% circumference.
sounds pretty solid most of the way around
id agree with the Armillaria, no resistograph in the valley that i know of yet
structure does look good above the base
if we cut every tree down in the valley with that amount of misteltoe there wouldnt be many oaks left! we typically just remove the mistletoe from the larger limbs. and remove smaller infected branches
i agree with brian on the decay from past experience but the canopy is pretty healthy, black oak have an open canopy.
im enjoying the responses and differing view points
 

treelooker

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The mistletoe is what does it in for me. You'd NEVER be able to cut it all out, the tree is too infected.
:|:

Anyone who can climb, can cut out the mistletoe, and paint it to smother it.

Shrooms halfway around, not good. Are they on the side that the building is? It does look like Amillaria at first glance. Peel off some bark and look for the shoestrings. Armillaria can be treated. Excise and sanitize the infection, and invigorate the roots. There was a good article in TCI on this a while back.

If the bark is dead halfway around, it may be too far gone.
 
M

Marc

Guest
the mushrooms and decay are spread out about 50% circumference.
sounds pretty solid most of the way around
id agree with the Armillaria, no resistograph in the valley that i know of yet
structure does look good above the base.
i agree with brian on the decay from past experience but the canopy is pretty healthy, black oak have an open canopy.
im enjoying the responses and differing view points
I've dealt with many Armillaria infected trees, Armillaria mellea is some of the worst mainly because it can affect healthy trees and take over quite quickly, not 100% sure if Mellea is the one in the pic though.

It looks bad though, in pic 4 that fruiting body looks like its already turning the wood to mush and is in an advanced stage, from what i've seen Armillaria does'nt always spread very far up the trunk, it tends to be low down it also affects the roots badly giving the tree a greater chance of windthrow.

Sounding with a mallet does not always show the extent of the decay in my experience, especially with Oak as you could still have a good layer of healthy wood, and most of the decay is at the buttress/base/roots. But this just maybe me and my lack of experience with sounding.

Have you tried probing the roots/base with a steel rod? Although this does'nt always show up the decay either as sometimes the roots decay from underneath first so the top remains fairly solid.

Also you say the canopy looks fairly healthy? Did you see it in full leaf or are you going by signs of die back? I've again seen trees with no signs of die back, but the foliage can be sparse/er with smaller leaves, yet the decay was advanced, so not always a good indicator.






Basically fell it.
 

treelooker

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Have you tried probing the roots/base with a steel rod? Although this does'nt always show up the decay either as sometimes the roots decay from underneath first so the top remains fairly solid.
:thumbup:
 
M

Marc

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Treelooker do you know which issue that article on Armillaria was in?

I've tried to google it, with no luck so far.

I've tried Armillatox with little to no success, anything i've tried including feeding only prolongs the life by a few more years, it all often seems impractical.
I generally reccomend felling and replanting with a resistant tree.
 

wiley_p

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Good management would say to remove the tree. There are options, but how viable are they for your customers pocketbook? Save the ISA wine and cheese tactics for those who have the money to gamble, You know there are dying/dead roots on a good portion of that tree. Along comes a stormy summer day, SMASH! thru the house, not good.
 
M

Marc

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Good management would say to remove the tree. There are options, but how viable are they for your customers pocketbook? Save the ISA wine and cheese tactics for those who have the money to gamble, You know there are dying/dead roots on a good portion of that tree. Along comes a stormy summer day, SMASH! thru the house, not good.
Agree with that to, we have tried controling armillaria with armillatox treatments and feeds, on a smaller scale in the past you may prolong the life of the tree by x amount of years but generally the honey fungus will win eventually, after all all honey fungus is natures way of breaking down trees in the forest, just in an urban enviroment thats not good.

Best to Fell the tree now, and money that could of been spent on treatment spent on a decent sized resistant replacement tree.
 

treelooker

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Marc, I don't have a digital copy but I'll look it up when I can. Armillaria CAN be codit indefinitely.

Save the ISA wine and cheese tactics for those who have the money to gamble, You know there are dying/dead roots on a good portion of that tree. Along comes a stormy summer day, SMASH! thru the house, not good.
This sounds like a tactic borne of Mogen David, mind rotted by rotgut, and a view of trees as things to cut down.

:blob6:

O and I'm from Wisconsin, so dissing cheese is not very nice!
 

sotc

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Also you say the canopy looks fairly healthy? Did you see it in full leaf or are you going by signs of die back? I've again seen trees with no signs of die back, but the foliage can be sparse/er with smaller leaves, yet the decay was advanced, so not always a good indicator.

Basically fell it.
i work on these trees often, the canopy seems normal from past experience, i dont see much die back. theres alot of dead wood typical to a tree that hasnt been pruned in years. i do agree with most of what marc has to say about the effects of armillaria and sounding and spending peoples money.
 

Old Monkey

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Last year I drove through Willie's neck of the woods and most of the trees had mistletoe in them. Too bad no one has a resistograph because then they could be the bad guy who says cut the tree down.
 

sotc

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ahh 2 of us have bid as a removal already:shrug:
 

wiley_p

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Its the best course of action Willie. There is a time and place for both removals, and PHC. There are folks who will not remove a tree just for the sake of their own lofty principals. The good move is remove, grind, haul away all debris, amend soil, and replant with a new tree.
 

GASoline71

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I completely understand the fact that some want to save every tree, and go to great lenghts to save said trees. :)

How do you explain to someone that you are saving their rotted tree, and it comes down on their home?

I'm not a removal junkie... I just see removals as a logical plan to save property dmamge, or loss of life. Sad to say but not EVERY tree is worth the risk to save.

I ain't no arborist niether... so I guess I prolly ain't ejumacated enough to make that assumption.

Gary
 
F

Frans

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we have a tendency in our society to attempt to 'save' that which is too far gone.

Just look at our health care industry..
 

treelooker

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we have a tendency in our society to attempt to 'save' that which is too far gone.

Just look at our health care industry..
I don't get it--are you for forced euthenasia?

What are chinese teenagers?

Youth-in-Asia. :pathetic:

Anywho, we have another tendency in our society to get rid of that which looks like it might be a problem, even if it's not.

50% circ decayed, may indeed be too far gone. Hey, if either of you get the job, it'd be cool to see the stump, to see how much rot there is.
 
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