New Saw Chain

[sawcollector]

First a quick review of the Picco chains STIHL offers:
PM which is Picco (Latin for small) Micro (semi-chisel) will be replaced by PMC, Picco Micro Comfort which is the same chain with the comfort feature. I feel that the C chain works well with no sacrifice in performance. I have tried it side by side on the same model of saw with regular chain and the comfort chain feels just as fast and is noticeably smoother.
This not reduced kickback chain; it has the yellow tie strap on it.
PMC3 is the green label reduced kickback version. The first reduced kickback chain had a 1, the next version had a 2, and these used the humped tie strap to reduce the kickback energy at the nose of the bar. The 3 means the drive link is what reduces the kickback. What I want to know is how often does an arborist need to do plunge cutting with the nose of the bar in the tree? Because for straight cutting the reduced kickback feature on "3" chains really does not slow the chain cutting speed. I guess think of it as third generation design chain.
PMC3 is a .050 gauge chain.
PMMC3 is Picco Micro Mini Comfort 3, and is only available in .043 gauge. This chain replaces the PMN Picco Micro Narrow reduced kickback chain, and again uses the drive link to reduce the kickback energy. PMN used a long ramp for the depth gauge to reduce the kickback, so it did not have a number.
STIHL now is making the plastic filled Lite bars in .043 gauge so you could get some more weight savings by switching to this bar and the PMMC3 chain, but I don't know how durable that would be on a MS 200 T for in tree use.
I just got a loop of the new PD3 chain, which is a low-kickback, comfort chain with carbide cutters.

The top chain is PD3, the middle chain is PMC3, and the bottom chain is PMN. The comfort chains have a C on the cutter and left and right tie straps that have a directional arrow on them, so be sure to get this right when you shorten or make up a chain.
Here is a close up of the PD3 chain:

I suspect the idea for this chain is for a homeowner who can't keep the nose of the bar out of the dirt. I saw a demo where he cut the wood, cut into a concrete block, then back into the wood and was still pulling chips. I will try to do some timed side by side cuts with this chain and compare it with PMC3 this week. We are cutting up a big old tree at my church next Sat. so for sure I can use it then. And I am getting the tree roped down by a pro, since it can't be felled due to wires and a house nearby. So all we will have to do is the groundwork.
As I have said before, a man needs to know his limitations!
Would any of you pro folks have need of a carbide chain due to special cutting situations? Remember that the only way to sharpen this chain is with a diamond wheel on a grinder.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Safety chain can bite my ass.

 

[SkwerI]

Yup, I'm not interested in trying to manipulate a chain into cutting when and how I want it to cut. I KNOW it's sharp and can cut me, therefore I make sure it doesn't contact my body. I do this for a living and have been using chainsaws for over 20 years. I'm not a homeowner or occasional user. You don't see professional butchers using safety knives, do you?

Is the PMMC chain available in a standard version or only the safety version? I hate the PMN chain on my pole pruner and was planning on swapping it to .050 gauge so I could run 63PM on it. Once the original chain wears out I will not put another safety chain on it.

 

[sotc]

Carbide? Or rare occasion I could use it, I have a 20" loop that just hangs in the shop. It's to expensive to mess with and I can't sharpen it

 

[Ax-Man]

Butch pretty much summed it up for us pro's.

I hate that safety chain. It works OK when it is nice and new but maintaining that chain after it dulls is a big pain in the ass trying to file that extra depth gauge.

I'm all for comfort when it comes to cutting but this overkill on kickback and trying to shove this safety chain down our throats for the pro's is stepping over the line IMO!!! I am not directing this at you Eddie but more at the Sthil corporation.

I have not been impressed with the way Sthil marketing trend has been going as of late. They seem to have just forgotten about the pro market like we are an afterthought and have been catering to the homeowner market by cheapening their products.

You asked about bore cutting. Yes, there are times it is used but not that much. I would rather have the single depth gauge chain for this type of cut verses the safety stuff. It all boils down to your skill level with a saw, not what chain you are using.

Carbide, yes I have a need for it as I am sure most professional do. Most pro's have a saw dedicated to doing dirty work such as low stump cuts, cutting surface roots when doing stump removal. I hate it but it has to done. I have used carbide in the past and it is impressive. Getting it resharpened is what turned me off to it. Our dealer has a diamond wheel but does a poor job at sharpening. This is why I quit using it.

In my case, as of late, we have been cutting back our fence lines due to encroachment of brush species like Buckthorn and wild Honeysuckle into a cultivated field and the easement road so the farmer can get his big equipment in . Cutting the stuff is easy compared to keeping it down and regrowing back.( Darn farmer complains but won't help out. )

After the intial clearing rough cut we have been going back over it with clearing saws to knock the little stuff down. The bigger stumps need to cut closer to the ground. Carbide would be nice if I had a way to sharpen it. But instead I use regular RM.

The end goal after getting it pretty much to ground level is to be able to mow it with a brush cutter mower or a tractor with a bushhog mower behind it. Getting all those stumps out with a grinder or a backhoe would be a major expensive project.

 

[Al Smith]

I'm not a pro in the sense that I use a chainsaw to make a living with .However I don't care for anti kickback or safety chain either .

When it comes to stump cuts it seems to me that regular semi chisel works fine . It's a tad tougher than chisel although not as fast as we all know .

 

[woodworkingboy]

I purchased a diamond wheel for carbide chain. It is costly, but it also keeps it's profile, you don't have to dress it. I use it for regular chain as well, seems to put out less heat than the regular carbide wheels.

 

[sawcollector]

Well folks I am not trying to push anything one way or the other, just interested in your opinions, and I appreciate all that has been said. Let me be sure you understand something about the new version of green low-kickback chain. Previous versions had the humped tiestraps. When you look at the chain in the middle of the bar the humps were lower than the depth gauge, or else the chain would not cut at all. The little tail on the link would kick out as the chain went around the nose of the bar to reduce kickback energy if it hit anything, which is also why it was not good at plunge cutting.
These new chains with a "3" in the name have the hump on the drive link so it does not lean out at all, and again is lower than the depth gauge. To me it feels like they do cut better, especially after a few sharpenings, which was always the big gripe on the 2 series chains. I think they had the depth gauge leaned over so as the cutter became shorter from sharpening the chain got wider and didn't cut as well.
So anyway I would like to hear from someone that has cut with one of the new chains with a 3 in the name, and hear how it does after some cutting time and a few sharpenings as well. If I am wrong that is fine but how do you know if you never try it out? Don't assume it is no good just because it is low-kickback.
The new carbide chain I talked about in the Picco size is very reasonably priced, like less than $40 for a 16" loop. I cut a few biscuits with it on a MS 211 and it really does cut well. I will see after the cutting day we are doing Sat., and report back.

 

[Gord]

Don't assume it is no good just because it is low-kickback.

Sorry but that's exactly what I'm going to do.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I concur, most wholeheartedly.

 

[NeTree]

I've always felt that if kickback was something you had to worry about because you didn't know how to control it or prevent it, you shouldn't be running a saw in the first place.