Miller TIG, Which one?

[lumberjack]

I want to get experiance with a TIG welder, but the VoTec center doesn't plan on offering any classes because they have a hard time filling the class.

I can't take a basic welding class and sit to the side TIG welding because the people in basic will be distracted by me (Instructor's thoughts).

So, I gotta buy a TIG if I want to get some experiance with it.

I'm between the Dynasty 200DX and the Syncrowave 200. The Dynasty is a full inverter setup, better duty cycle and a larger amerage window (Rated to weld steel down to .004"). Miller's TIGs Both are able to pulse in AC/DC. The Syncrowave w/ Foot Control is about $2000 vs the Dynasty w/finger being about $3175.

I'm also pondering between finger and foot control, leaning towards finger for a more all-purpose setup, get a foot control for bench welding when I recover financially.

In the work that I mentioned getting into (Elders, keep it there for now ), TIG was the only welding process I don't have enough experiance with to be able to honestly say I can do to the level they expect. So, this can only help better qualify me for the job. Also your pay is skill based, the more skill= the more money. The job's take home pay would cover the expense of the Dynasty welder in 4-6 weeks, and it's a process I've been wanting to my "shop."

Now isn't the time when I wanted to buy the welder, but I can only assume the application deadline is fixing to close and they interviews will start shortly. Going to these "lengths" will also show my desire to learn/expand my skill set, which is something they look hard at from what I've been told.

Soo, after that diatribe, anyone have a relevant opinion?

I also have an 8% off coupon (up to $100) that's good through tomorrow night at midnight on Egay w/ paypal.

 

[JIML]

I like a foot control, I have both though. I have a syncrowave 250dx with internal water cooler. I recommend getting a water cooled torch if doing any aluminum.

I was wanting a tig like you.. Ended up saving my pennies and getting what I really wanted rather than a 200 amp machine. Ive only ran mine full tilt once and was glad I had the duty cycle and amps to do it. I paid around $4000 a few years ago. I have invested in several different torch setups now and have a good selection of fillers. I pretty much only use 2% Thoriated tungsten, stainless, steel, aluminum...

Foot control is easier to learn with. I can use mine standing, sitting, laying, however necessary. This is the hand control I like. I had a different one and didn't like it. I don't use it that much. Most my tig work is bench welding.

 

[Dave Shepard]

I prefer the hand control myself, but I can't get it for my TIG.

JIML, are you using thoriated for Aluminum?

 

[lumberjack]

The reason I am leaning towards finger is it's more all purpose and more likely to be what they use in the potential job.

Why do you need 310 amps? Welding alot of aluminum? The Syncro 250DX runner package is about $4400, the LX is $6100. I can tell you now I'm not spending that on a TIG machine for my current needs.


The majority of what I see me welding personally is going to be on the thinner side of things, like .120", or getting tiny broken bolts/pins out, but I want at least 200 amps.


Also, the Dynasty will run on 120-460 volts 1 or 3 phase, while the Syncros will only work on 200-230/460/575, 1 phase. I don't plan on doing much if any at 120, but it's pretty nice to know that I can. Also, with the Autoline (on the Dynasty)I don't change anything going from 120V single phase to 460V 3 phase.


Which one?
Dynasty 200DX with Weldcraft Torch for $3175 It doesn't look like it comes with the regulator or hose work for the gas.

Dynasty 200DX with "Contractor Kit" from Miller for $3429 Looks like you add gas and get with it.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Have never felt the need for a foot control myself, guess it would depend on the tasks. Get one that allows you to change the polarity so that you can weld both stainless and aluminum. A good one should have an inverter, and also allow adjustable pulse welding, which helps for thin material.....spreads out the heat band. I looked at the Millers, but ended up purchasing a Panasonic, payed about three grand. You'll be wanting different sized tips to accept different diameter tungsten, along with the cones that shield the gas. The price of Argon has really gone up around here!

Some tig welders also will do plasma cutting. Less monkeying around if you have a separate machine though.

 

[Jonseredbred]

How about just a gas welding outfit for your existing stick welder???

Cheap and easy to learn the basic's of tig welding. I think the torch and flowmeter are less than $150.00.

Set your electrode to negative, 25 psi of argon and your welding.

 

[lumberjack]

Both of those allow for both AC/DC as well as pulsing on both. The Dynasty goes from 1-200 amps while the Syncro goes from 5-200.

The Dynasty is full inverter (45lbs) with a better duty cycle (60% vs 40% @ 150 amps) than the Syncro. The Syncro uses a transformer and inverter (238lbs) and is more picky on it's input voltage.


Adding a plasma would be nice, but they only get up to about 28V on the output. It seems most plasma's are about 3-4X the voltage, and considerably less amps. An external transformer could be set up to step the voltage up to the appropriate levels. Excluding the transformer's inefficiency, the Dynasty could put out 62 amps @90VDC. That might be something to ponder after I get TIG figured out.

How about just a gas welding outfit for your existing stick welder???

Cheap and easy to learn the basic's of tig welding. I think the torch and flowmeter are less than $150.00.

Set your electrode to negative, 25 psi of argon and your welding.

I've thought about that too. A manual gas torch, argon, and a regulator.

But that's only an approximation of TIG. I don't think they would appreciate the ingenuity of it if they asked what machine I was using.


My cousin's husband is in their training/HR department. He gets back from visiting his daughter tonight around 8 and is suppose to give me a call. If he says that TIG is nice, but he doubts it would add to my starting pay or improve my chances of landing the job, I'll keep the money and charge on with the other areas of improvement.

Presently I'm taking 36 hours of class a week, getting paper to back up/quantify and expand my skills. I spend another 10-15 hours in the machine shop getting out of class training/more advanced training than the classes curriculum allows. In the first week (8 hours) I covered the class's cirriculum on the lathe. I have another 24 hours to go on the lathe before I jump over to the mill side.

 

[Reddog]

Before you Buy, I would go spend some time trying out some Lincoln's and Millers at the same time.

 

[lumberjack]

That's the problem, I don't know of anywhere to play with one.

 

[Dave Shepard]

You'll also need a high-frequency unit for the stick welder to make it a TIG. I looked into that route, and I think you're money is better spent on a real TIG.

 

[Jonseredbred]

You'll also need a high-frequency unit for the stick welder to make it a TIG. I looked into that route, and I think you're money is better spent on a real TIG.

Yes, if you need to weld aluminum.

Carl, does your new Mig have the capability of Tig?? I had an ESAB for a while that you could do both processes with (low frequency).

 

[lumberjack]

AFAIK the Millermatic can't do TIG.

You can scratch start on steel using a copper pad if you don't have HF. Still gotta have it for Al though.

Can you use a foot control on a finger control torch? It's looking like you can, since the torch's power doesn't come through the 14 pin connector. Assuming you can I can get the Dynasty with the miller torch w/finger controls (velcro on) and add a foot control for another $220-250.

 

[Reddog]

That's the problem, I don't know of anywhere to play with one.

All of the welding supply house here will have demo machines. Call around and see.

 

[lumberjack]

There is a dealer, but they don't stock much in the way of machines.

What do you like about Lincoln? My stick and MIG are both Miller, I do have a Lincoln Pro Core 100 though. It's been a solid, micro machine.

 

[Reddog]

What do you like about Lincoln?

Less porosity, smoother machine.
It's hard to explain to a new welder. But once they have a weld or two fail test, they start to see the difference.
I welded a lot of die repair. So we could have no laps, pits or voids after finishing.
My BIL welds pipe. Most all his welds are shot(x rayed). He hates millers.
But sometimes is forced to use them if that is supplied on the job.
So a good welder figures out how to make it work. But doesn't mean they have to like it.

 

[Al Smith]

I suppose it just depends on what part of the country you live in but often good used machines can be had relatively cheap .

For example I have a Hobart 250 main line special and a Lincoln SA 200 I got for 400 cash .My oldest brother picked up a big Lincoln 400 amp wire feed for 65 bucks that had a bad switch .

Auctions are a gamble though one has to keep that in mind .With the rash of bankruptcies I would imagine there will plenty of stuff to buy if a guy had an inside track to it .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Need an auto darkening helmet for tig too, guess you already know that.

 

[lumberjack]

Reddog, what Miller and what Lincoln was he using?

It looks like Miller has the comparable Lincoln beat in every catagory.

Porosity is typically due to contamination from poor initial cleaning, poor pre/post flow, contaminated filler, or a contaminated tungsten; right?

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/comparisons/dynasty_200.html

 

[Reddog]

Sorry, we don't keep track of all the numbers. We just run what ever is provided. And in general those are the differences we see no matter what model.
I do know I like the Precision Line for tigs. Pipeliner for a self powered. And the Idealarc's for stationary power.
The other difference on stick machines is the Lincoln's seem to splatter less everything being equal.

 

[woodworkingboy]

They make a spray that is helpful for prep. I've had some problems welding regular steel with tig. The metal wants to bubble as it cools, not sure what the deal is, unless too much heat changed the properties of the steel, or sumpin? Never does that with stainless. Have never heard of contaminated tungsten. What would contaminate it? The arc is like 8000 degrees or something.

 

[Dave Shepard]

The tungsten can get contaminated if you touch the weld puddle. When it happens to me welding aluminum, it travels about 3/4" up the tungsten, and you have to break it off and start over.

 

[Al Smith]

You can get all kinds of funny stuff with either MIG or TIG . You keep dipping your filler on TIG ,you get "Sugar" which is caused by drawing in outside oxegon from no gas coverage . Lack of proper gas will also cause all kinds of porosity problems .

With MIG you have to not only be concerned with amperage but also the feed rate of the wire plus proper gas .It all just takes time to work out . Some pick it up fast ,some do not ,some never do .

 

[lumberjack]

The tungsten can get contaminated if you touch the weld puddle. When it happens to me welding aluminum, it travels about 3/4" up the tungsten, and you have to break it off and start over.

Or the filler rod or base metal, right? That's why a copper scratch pad is used when welding steel without a hot start/HF starting aid.

If you're making sugar on the face of the weld you can bet it's at the root as well (stainless, for example). In that case you'd need to back gas the weld.

 

[Dave Shepard]

All the more reason to own a real, as opposed to make-do TIG. Touching the filler is probably the most common cause of contamination I experience. If you don't already have an auto helmet, and are going to get one, don't cheap out. I've seen really cheap ones, that will flash your eyes. The mid range ones that you find at TSC are usually not supported, i.e. no parts or other attention available after sale. I have a Huntsman, which I like. Jackson also makes a nice one. I think good ones are still around $150-200, but well worth it.

 

[Al Smith]

On nickle or stainless tubing they more times than not use a gas purge on the inside of the pipe . Most everything else they don't . Different situations call for different methods .

The biggest thing I can say is with any type welding dirt type contamination is a big factor and much more so using an inert gas type method .

You can take a fairly dirty piece of steel ,burn in a root and hot pass using 6010 and a cover with 7018 and have usually a pretty good joint .You can't do that with inert gas . However more time spent on fit up means less time on welding and usually with better end results .