The Tree House loves TreeStuff!

Liability

treebilly

Student of the Jedi
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
5,066
Location
North Lawrence,OH
I was asked to splice a whoopie and a few ultra slings by someone today. Tenex is so easy but I have no official training. Also the company he works for supplies a very minimal amount of gear and says that all gear must be company supplied. The GF tells them they can bring in extra, just don’t get caught by the higher ups. What sort of liability would I be taking on? I was going to do it at a little over my cost for materials and cash with no paper trail but it still worries me a bit. Also I’ve had two failures, both on whoopie slings, and both were expected. They were worn out and the load was well over the limits. Also both were in a controlled circumstance. Basically I was testing to failure in the “name of science”
 

Tree09

Treehouser
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
5,733
Location
Peoria il
I have wondered about that as well, and if there's a way to become "certified" to perform certain splices. And i also wonder if your general liability would cover it, especially if you called your insurance guy and made sure in writing. It's a sad day for rigging, but I'm afraid lawyers have successfully all but ruined the trade.
 

SkwerI

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
18,031
Location
central Florida
If liability is a concern of yours then you can't do it. Period.

Comparable to the old couple with the big tree over their house (that has been there for 30 years). Once they have decided that liability exists, nobody is going to sleep well until the liability is gone. Therefore no amount of talking or reasoning will convince them the tree is fine because it's a liability.

Therefore since you have already determined that splicing a sling for somebody will make you liable for that sling forever, there is no way you will ever sleep soundly once you sell your splicing work. So just stop right now and forget about it. Maybe one day when you quit running chainsaws and decide to start a splicing business you can purchase liability insurance and sell spliced slings. But that isn't now.
 

treebilly

Student of the Jedi
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
5,066
Location
North Lawrence,OH
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
I’ll let it run a bit longer just for educational purposes. I most likely will explain to him why these slings cost what they do when purchased with tags on them and just be done with that. I do my own but I also am the only one using them and am mostly conservative in my rigging.
I also just payed for a Fids and Fibers class but I doubt that would help with legal liability. Chris Girard, I would appreciate any insight from you before I ask to delete this
 

treebilly

Student of the Jedi
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
5,066
Location
North Lawrence,OH
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Really don’t know. I’ve already decided I’m not doing the splicing so really no need. Going to contact tcia to see if the certified splicer program ever got anywhere. I doubt it though. To many rope manufacturers with to many different ropes.
 

Marc-Antoine

TreeHouser
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,817
Location
France
That was my worry too, still it is. I made/make most of my splices and some hardware like a portawrap and a rigging block for my own. I'm reasonably confident in my ability to make good stuff, but the What If is a real concern.
 

frans

TreeHouser
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
820
I have been splicing for years. You say you have also. Nothing wrong with the splice, it's just the use of that splice.
Best splice on earth can't overcome misuse. THAT is when the lawyers get involved. Guy takes your spliced product and overloads it or cuts it, or whatever, then makes a claim. The insurance does the blame game and searches up and down for pockets to raid.
I only splice for myself because of this

Perhaps you could get paid to put on a rigging workshop where you can demo some gear? Try and get the company to invest in more rigging gear.
 

treesmith

Banned
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
3,972
Location
Alabama
I have customers all the time ask me if I have any old rope(s) I'd sell (or give) them for whatever....tie-downs/livestock leads/etc....I NEVER have rope to give or sell. No telling what they'll do with it. I'd apply the same logic to splicing. Just my $.02.
 

Marc-Antoine

TreeHouser
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,817
Location
France
A landscaper asked me too a couple times for an used climbing rope. You know, for the easy pruning...
I said yes to keep him happy, but each time I "forgot" to do it.:/:
 

Tim_B.

TreeHouser
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
1,077
Location
Northern Virginia
Also the company he works for supplies a very minimal amount of gear and says that all gear must be company supplied. The GF tells them they can bring in extra, just don’t get caught by the higher ups.
It seems funny to me that this GF is asking his subordinates to disobey a direct order from the people who outrank him higher up in the organization. He should instead ask the higher-ups what the reason for the rule is, and explain that to his subordinates. The company should have to live with the results, and then change the rules if needed. If the line worker does not like the rules, because they seem to make his life a whole lot more difficult, he should start looking for another company to work for that provides more and better gear.

The GF is breeding a disrespect for the leadership at the top. If the leadership is a bunch of pinheads, they deserve to suffer the results of their stupid decisions. Just my opinion.

One last thing is that maybe you could teach a man to fish, instead of giving him a fish. See if you two can make time to teach him how to splice his own stuff. He'll appreciate what you've done for him for the rest of his life, and he'll think of you every time he makes his next splice.
 

treebilly

Student of the Jedi
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
5,066
Location
North Lawrence,OH
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
This is what I was thinking of doing. I have the splicing manual and tools. Granted it’s a basic kit that I don’t use anyhow. Figured I could lend him the stuff and walk him through it.

I get the companies policy. I also know that he works for one of the biggest companies there is. They are still in the belief that all anyone needs is a rope and a saw. Minimum required ppe, a pair of saws and a few ropes for rigging. Now this might not be company wide, but it’s what I’ve heard from many of their employees in my area. Not saying that the work needs every new fancy tool, but options are nice. I can rig down a spar with just a rope but a block sure makes things nice. They have a block and a porty but no slings and aren’t allowed to cut a rope to tie them on with so they are using broken pieces for that. This is one of the reasons that I will hit rock bottom before ever being employed by these guys.
 

Bodean

Cali dreamer
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
6,895
Location
San Francisco, Kali
Sorry... I stopped at employees asking employees to make gear to get the company's jobs done....

How come they don't provide whatever you?
 

Merle Nelson

TreeHouser
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
2,566
Location
CA, SF- North Bay
A part of being in a protected position to splice for others after being certified will be being insured specifically for that. Look into that and purchased splices will now seem cheap.

Why would you delete the thread?
Everything you say or write can be used against you in a court of law if it comes to that. Listen to how far back they are searching internet records for the person accused of this crime or that.

Some searches are hard and take a lot, some could be done by a teenager in half an hour. Injury lawyers would have a field day with a lot of what is written here if one of us were involved in some bad situation.
 

Tree09

Treehouser
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
5,733
Location
Peoria il
I hear you, but my contention is this: splicing has been part of the rigging trade since it started. Part of every rigging task is inspecting and choosing proper rigging, so anytime something goes wrong it's supposed to be on the guy doing the actual rigging, unless the rigging manufacturer could be blamed due to negligence or something similar. If you are unable to eye splice hollow braid, you probably don't need to be even tying your shoes, but if someone makes you some rigging you use it, you have to inspect it and declare it safe for use before you can begin. The rigging trade, like most trades, has been dumbed down over the years to allow a less skilled and less paid individual to do it. At some point standing up to idiocracy needs to happen.
 
The Tree House Loves TreeStuff!
Top