Leaners

[Greenhorn]

Wondering if anybody has any tricks for blocking down a leaning spar. I dont spend too much time in spikes so that may explain it but I find it extremely hard to cut notches / tie rigging on spars that have a decent amount of lean.

 

[MasterBlaster]

1st piece of advice; WEAR HOOKS, and get used to em.

 

[Old Monkey]

I can't think of any tricks per se, it is a hard thing to do. You really don't need much of a face cut if you are falling with the lean, so I wouldn't spend too much time on them.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'm not one for hooks myself, but that is a strategy hear.

Guy wire with ropes against the lean; tighten , lock off line and extend the compression gear (piggy backed on top of the guy rope)so it can be retightened as you take weight off and the leaner sits up some (slackening the guy 'wire'). Otherwise you are supported well only at the start; by the guy rope. Low impact & do back weight last so it can be a further ballast against lean and impacts into lean. Try to tie in to another overhead support; and even run rigging line from another support to the leaner as secondary support(unless this line can move either tree towards the other when shocked!). Then try to free fall what ya can without rope. cot and throw stuff on hinge and race to cut hinge so stuff throws away from you; with no shaking of leaner, like some kind of ninja move of grace and power.

Instead of running line straight to ground; run it along the strength column of the spar or similair angle. Try to muscle and flex stuff over on hinge so slow; it doesn't impact line; sometimes using a prybar and pushing on top of block/wood at same time. The push down on lever and up on top of lad/block gives 2 distance inputs; like a 2:1 action. i favor a semi trailer tire spoon for a lever, as it fits into the kerf nicely; and has about no give. The hinge at lean will already be forced stronger (will flex over earlier; from it's own weight leverage) than a shallower lean; and have less travel to be upside down too. Also, you can sometimes get it to flex over to the side of the lean sum. The rope choice should be fairly elastic for the weight. Even elastic, but too high a tensile will give too little elasticity. Also, elastic can be Pretightened; and this can even help muscle over the load on the hinge farther before any drop impact into line. first hitch higher than just a butt tie, is a way to sneak extra elastic length into system; and you can place hand in face and push out on line to help sweat line tighter more easily.

So, i guess this is the flipside strategy of OM's. Either can be right by circumstance and/or orchestration IMLHO(but i see most things like that).

 

[Greenhorn]

Todays removal was what got me wondering. It was a leaning trunk about 20 - 22 inches diameter with no options for overhead tie in. And of course pool and fence beneath. I used multiple "level" cuts with 20 inch bar - finishing with hand saw. Then leaned foward just enough to grab pieces and throw them off to one side behind me. Would have preferred to rig it out but with that much lean couldnt figure out how to get close enough to the work at hand. Gerry mentions resting a knee up against the truck and tightening the safefy up - thus allowing the installation of rigging perhaps..
Oh well, just some green problems I guess. Leaners with no overhead tie in are just a PITA!

 

[Old Monkey]

You know how to make a snap cut don't you? You cut most of the way across from right to left(or vice versa) and then make a little cut lower than you first cut from left to right. You put your saw down and break the piece of toward the small cut.

 

[gf beranek]

Working on a leaning trunk over obstacles and without an overhead tie-in or purchase point to rig from is,,,,, well, about as tuff as it can get.

Small pieces is the rule. Snap cuts are a little risky there, I'd say, OM. Handable size, or rig'em off the stem. Could get a little bouncy on a whip, hey?

 

[Greenhorn]

yah, I use snap cuts, mostly in smaller stuff but I guess its good for larger to if properly executed.

Moral of the leaner story - bid high for such things - and then pay some one else to do it!

 

[Blinky]

Snap cuts are good on bigger stuff too.

My first thought would be rigging small chunks off the stem and having the groundies land them away from the targets with a tagline. It's still handy to do snap cuts because they're easier than notches and you can control exactly when they fall.

 

[Tree09]

I was going to start a new thread on this, and then low and behold, it already happened. I'm doing a leaner tomorrow, and have been trying to figure out how to work it. No tie in opportunity to make it easy, and it's more of a sweep. Goes about 15 degree going up, then goes horizontal, then back up. Not tall by any means, driveway below tips so i was planning on brushing it out, then working back down the stem using a loop runner. Anyone else do this or do you guys just kinda kneel or something? I was also playing with the idea of dropping down, then just coming back up and using a vertical speed line on the butt pulling it back so it misses. Thoughts and wisdom plz

 

[MasterBlaster]

.

 

[SeanKroll]

Tree09,

pictures speak a thousand words.


A 540* lanyard wrap, rather than 180* wrap does wonders for stability.

 

[Tree09]

That they do, thx Butch. I always forget about the 540 wrap for some reason, thx Sean. Probably because I'm not very good at spur climbing because i learned without first, and my left spur always seems to kick over my heel. Anyways didn't get to the part that had me worried today, got the dead one down, and hung another one with my homemade grcs. It has been too long since I've climbed, and I'm overweight and out of shape, so I'm slower than i remember lol.

 

[sawman]

Homemade grcs??no shit??

 

[Tree09]

Yup. Different brand of capstan winch, non self tailing, welded steel everything else. Got a homemade portawrap too, my homemade aerial friction brake didn't work because i used 3" instead of 2" square tube so that ended up in the scrap pile. I'll post a picture later this week if i remember lol.

Heres the winches before i built the tree mounting thing. Pack of smokes for size comparison. It's the only pic i had on my phone. Bought off ebay, they were obviously hacked off a sailboat lol.

 

[sawman]

Nice!!
Be cool to see more pics!
Welcome to the house. My name's George.

 

[Tree09]

Nice to meet you George, I'm Kyle!

 

[Brock Mayo]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but choking your climb line below your lanyard from the correct direction (right to left, or left to right depending on which side you're on) will hold you securely on a pretty bad side lean. You just have to slide it around the trunk about 90 degrees from where you want to be. The other thing that works for me is to do my snap cuts from the low side of the lean. It's murder as far as comfort but gives much better control of the piece, if that is needed.

 

[Chris E]

^ Nice.... I also read somewhere you can choke a loop runner to the stem and stand on the loop for support. Sounds a bit time consuming but if it helps it helps...

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I'm not comfortable at all with the spikes, the leaners and the dog leg parts are a nasty challenge for me. I can't stand on the top side of the leaner, as it should be, by fear of falling sideway to the underside.
I tried the climb line choked on the side. It's fine for cutting, but as soon as I have to move, I struggle again with my (un)stability.
So I climb (up or down) directly "on" the underside, much more stable, even if the spikes aren't so much sunk in the wood. That last point becomes a problem only with the heavy leaners.
When I buck down the trunk, I'm in a good position to hold the log (firewood size), my left forearm under the log with the hand on the top. I finish to cut through one handed. The log lays on the trunk and on my forearm, and with the left hand I can work a little the log to free the saw. Then I have my both hands to manage the log.
It's a good exercise for the abdominals !

 

[Altissimus]

Gerry's book has it all for tips , tricks , and overall technique for Leaning work ( many mentioned here already )... You're doing it the hard way , which gets respect I'm sure around here. Sometimes it's the best safest way , sometimes the only way ...

 

[sotc]

I'm not comfortable at all with the spikes, the leaners and the dog leg parts are a nasty challenge for me. I can't stand on the top side of the leaner, as it should be, by fear of falling sideway to the underside.
I tried the climb line choked on the side. It's fine for cutting, but as soon as I have to move, I struggle again with my (un)stability.
So I climb (up or down) directly "on" the underside, much more stable, even if the spikes aren't so much sunk in the wood. That last point becomes a problem only with the heavy leaners.
When I buck down the trunk, I'm in a good position to hold the log (firewood size), my left forearm under the log with the hand on the top. I finish to cut through one handed. The log lays on the trunk and on my forearm, and with the left hand I can work a little the log to free the saw. Then I have my both hands to manage the log.
It's a good exercise for the abdominals !

Ugg, that sounds awful. The top is the place to be. Everyone hates going around a dogleg, just awkward but you're not doing yourself any favors by climbing the belly of the beast.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Well, I hear you. I have to put that on my improvements list and my mind on it.
It will be a challenge to convince my body that I should be fine with the "top" technique.

 

[Tree09]

Thx for all the input guys, i was kinda expecting a "what da ......?" Lol, thx for being gentle. I have had good luck with staying on the top on gentle leaners in the past, but i never was good on the work positioning needed to perform cuts on the low side. Several tips presented here should help immensely. I also am not the best in spurs, and when on leaning wood where you can't lean back in your flipline i look especially stupid.

 

[sotc]

Like everything else we do, you just gotta do it a bit to start getting used to it. Like Butch says, just gotta get your mind right. The round turn can help immensely