HitchHiker2 tending, sitback, configurations?

soup-n-sandwich

soup-n-sandwich

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Hi guys,
I'm hoping some of you have the same gear and can maybe point me in a direction that works.
Ok the gear list:
  • TreeMotion saddle
  • Self made Hitch Hiker tending device for SRT
  • Hitch Climber pulley
  • HAAS knee ascender
  • CT Right foot ascender
  • Weaver chest tending harness


I recently added the Hitch Climber pulley and biner below the HH for a much better limb walking experience (and 3 to 1 mech. advantage) as well as a third becket on the bottom is used to connect the bungee cord from the HAAS. Since this edition I'm struggling to get the tending, bridge length and sit-back correct.

I made a HH tending device that was modelled after this: https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=15839 but made from steel. This worked great until the extra spacing from the pulley and biner.

I feel that if the bridge ring and newly added biner was replacing with something shorter (or replacing the biner on the HH with something smaller) would at least get me close the overall length of the HH biner connected directly to the bridge ring...but I'm sure that is not a recommended way to go.

The first issue is my rope bridge is MUCH shorter than I like it but it was necessary to reduce the height of the HH while sitting it the saddle.
When ascending the HH is too low which causes issue with the HAAS knee ascender not having the proper "travel". Also now when I sit back in the saddle the tending connection between my Weaver chest harness and the HH is too tight as I'm actually slightly below the HH so there is a lot of tension on the chest harness/HH tending device.

I'm a small guy at about 5'5" so there isn't much room for a setup that isn't dialed in. It appears that most of my issues are related to where the HH sits during my ascent. If I disconnected the tending from the chest harness and manually grabbed the top of the HH biner, keeping it about neck level everything seems to work better but my climbs are to the top, usually over 100 feet so having a tending device is a must. Maybe another method of tending is necessary? Also, since the knee ascender is not connected to the HC pully and the pulley height is dictated by the height of the HH, the HH must stay high on me during the ascent otherwise nothing seems to work correct.

I'm sure I can work through this and get something to work, as I'm doing this I'm curious if anybody else wit the same gear has gone though this already.

Thanks guys,
Soup
100_5473.jpg 100_5478.jpg
 
There is a whole thread on nothing but this and the Rope Wrench here. Having all that extra hardware seems unnecessary, but I do understand that many people like having a pulley below their HH. Never seen the need myself. . . Slack tending and 3:1 do incur a little resistance, but it's nothing objectionable. I usually just clip everything into the lower biner, knees ascender and usually a strap over the shoulder for advancing the system.

14188207_1123087187727221_1896968538296512685_o.jpg
 
An alternative to the hitch climber is the use of a pinto. It attaches through the HH krab onto your harness attachment so does not extend the origonal HH set-up
 
This works well.
 

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Hey, Chris! I just wanted to make a quick post to let you know someone has seen your question and is pondering it. I have a similar setup to the one you're using, and I did end up finding a solution that worked for me.

I posted some photos on this forum a long time ago that I think showed the setup I was considering using. I'm still searching for it though. Also, I posted a short video on YouTube a long time ago that showed my Hitch Hiker/pulley arrangement. I'm going to try to dig up a link to that video, also. (I'm not a hugely active YouTube poster, so I'll need to look for it.)

In the meantime, I'd also like to say that I tried to make my own chest harness for tending my systems, out of webbing straps, but I did not like how it felt tending from the front, as it felt like the strap going around my chest was trying to crush my ribs; really uncomfortable. Also, it was tending from too low a point, just like you are experiencing. So I added one more piece of webbing that went from the left rear of the strapping that ran horizontally around my chest, and brought it up over my right shoulder, so that it stops on the front side, just below the peak of my right shoulder. I attached a clevis to the strapping at this point. On this forum, I think this device is referred to as an "Over The Shoulder Holder Upper Thingy" or OTSHUT, in its shortened form.

So the idea is to tend from the highest point possible, but another unexpected advantage of this setup, for me, is that the 1" wide webbing strap running slightly diagonally across my back is strong enough to sit back against when you get tired during an ascent. It holds you up vertical, and allows you to sit back against it, almost like a lounge chair.

More posts to follow once I've found what I'm looking for. I hope this gives you a place to start, though.

Also, I use different holes on the pulley than you do, for the reasons you've stated; it makes the system too long. My photos and video show my setup, if I can find them. Please bear with me while I hunt down the links in question.

Tim

Edit: Just to show you how outstanding this forum is, when I started writing this post nobody had yet replied to your questions. By the time I posted, there were already four responses sitting in front of mine, with photos included. You guys are amazing!
 
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  • #7
Grendel I did actually read most of that post/thread but didn't see anything as specific to my issue but thanks for the information. I tried to do a search for topic before I post but sometimes the search engine doesn't pick it up.
Guys thanks for the efforts and all the great suggestions. The pics really make a difference in actually seeing the configurations.

DMc...thanks. Great shot of your setup. MUCH less bulk than mine. So this setup actually tends well despite the tending over the shoulder strap being connected to the bridge ring rather than the top of the biner of the HH?

On a slightly different side of this; I see countless Youtube videos on the HH regarding installation on the rope, tending, etc. The manufacture indicates starting the prusik wrap on the spine side and the spine faces the climber yet I see the exact opposite from some folks. Any input on this regarding safety, tending downsides/upsides?
Soup
 
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Thanks Tim! Man you guys are great. What a good group this is on Treehouse!
I only have seen one video on YouTube regarding the HitchClimber pulley. It might have been you but I'm looking forward to see what your doing.
I must have watched and studied every video on Youtube and thought I knew what to expect. Ha! No such luck. When all the equipment is on you and your actually climbing nothing really worked the way I was thinking it would...so it takes time to figure things out. What might seem like an unrelated tid bit ends up being far more significant than I thought it would be.
If it wasn't for Treehouse I would feel like I'm on a island and don't speak the language.
 
soup-n-sandwich said:
... So this setup actually tends well despite the tending over the shoulder strap being connected to the bridge ring rather than the top of the biner of the HH?...
Click to expand...

Yes, amazingly well. It is fantastic with a foot and knee ascender.
 
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  • #10
DMc said:
Yes, amazingly well. It is fantastic with a foot and knee ascender.
Click to expand...
Really?! I would have never guessed it. Where are you connecting your knee ascender bungee?
Now when your done ascending and you sit back on your saddle (to take a rest) are you forced to disconnect the tending strap or will it let you sit without disconnecting it?

Chris
 
Hey, Chris. This is the link to my video, which as you've said, you may have seen it already.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=aBQWMYkQ3ck

I see what you're saying about reversing the orientation of the Hitch Hiker. When I started shooting the video, the Hitch Hiker was in its correct orientation. It got turned around backwards when I swung the system around the tree and tried to re-attach it to my harness one-handed while holding the camera with the other. Probably crossed up a biner at the same time.

The two main points I was trying to make with the video, (with me doing all of this stuff safely on the ground) was the fact that I used the bottom hole of the triple attachment pulley for the point of attachment of the Hitch Hiker's biner. The whole body of the pulley was able to rotate up and fit through the sides of the biner. This location shortens the system up considerably, and also takes a whole lot of slop out of the system.

The other point was just how easy it was to take the whole system and disconnect it from the harness, pass it around the trunk and then re-attach it. No disassembly of the system required, no separate parts to drop. Clipping a small accessory biner to your bridge below the Hitch Hiker and around your rope will prevent the dropping of the entire climbing system.

At the end of the video, when the system got reversed, was a mistake, which could have been fixed by just unclipping the biner to the bridge and rotating it 180°'s and re-attaching it. I just didn't notice it at the time, as I was just trying to bang out a quick video that showed my setup's arrangement.

In the video, you also see my over the shoulder holder upper thingy.

One last thing is that Paul Cox, the inventor of the Hitch Hiker, never endorsed my use of the Hitch Hiker in this manner. He didn't quite know what to make of it. He never wrote to me to tell me not to do it anymore, but he didn't seem too sure about whether or not it was an ok thing to do. Having said all of that, I've never had an issue with it.

Tim
 
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Thanks Tim..yup, I did see that video. That link you sent me doesn't work as is. I had to change it to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBQWMYkQ3ck
I hear you on Paul not endorsing it. I understand it's for safety reasons. This is life support systems so I can understand if it wasn't thoroughly testing in "the lab" they won't recommend it.
For me, using the HH without a tending pulley is doable...but wow is it much smoother with the pulley. Especially when using a hand ascender and Revolver biner above for the 3 to 1 mech. advantage. Huge difference there.

Usually I would find my own way of doing things but this group has lots more experience than I do, as I don't climb trees as an arborist and this is life support stuff we are talking about here so I have to take it seriously. Thanks for sharing your method.

Most of the issue is, not only the length of the added "stuff" (really it's the extra biner) but more importantly it's the lack of adjustment in my Weaver chest harness. The clip in point needs to be higher. I'm going to work through this and let you know how I make out.

I guess I should get use to, for awhile anyway, the fact that I'm going to buy equipment that doesn't work out...this may be another one of those...we shall see.

MasterBlaster said:
How did you find us, Chris?
Click to expand...

I seen some references to "Treehouse" from a lot of conversations going on within the Youtube comments section. Although I have ordered my stuff from TreeStuff.com I didn't know about the Treehouse until almost a year later. So I guess I stumbled on this great forum through Youtube. Image that...
 
soup-n-sandwich said: " The clip in point needs to be higher. I'm going to work through this and let you know how I make out."

Which is why I mentioned the OTSHUT. (Over The Shoulder Holder Upper Thingy).

Tim
 
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  • #16
Yup. I see that you still have the typical tether on your HH in that video...but the OTSHUT is much better I take it. I know the neck lanyard seems to work for a lot of folks but I don't want anything around my neck!
It's raining over here today. I'll have to check this out when it stops...supposed to be four days of this!
c
 
Another thing I forgot to mention is that by putting the Hitch Hiker biner into the bottom hole of the triple attachment pulley, and another biner into the top hole, that top biner becomes my tending point for the system. The middle hole gets used for the biner going to my rope bridge's ring.

When I walk up the rope, the system tends itself easily. Also, just in case nobody has mentioned it yet, sitting hard into your harness while still on the ground a few times will help to "set" the Hitch Hiker hitch, allowing it to tend easily. Before I sit in it a few times hard, the hitch resists tending a lot. So I sit in it, walk forward tending, sit, tend, sit, tend. After three or four quick iterations of this, the hitch tends really easily.

Tim
 
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  • #21
Raj said:
My setup. The tether is leather and webbing sewn together with metal in between using the that stitcher.

View attachment 73836[/B]
Click to expand...

I see Peter. Look good. Mine is metal...but falls down. This causes some issues. It's already snowing in Ontario?!!? Oh...maybe this was an old picture.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that by putting the Hitch Hiker biner into the bottom hole of the triple attachment pulley, and another biner into the top hole, that top biner becomes my tending point for the system. The middle hole gets used for the biner going to my rope bridge's ring.

When I walk up the rope, the system tends itself easily. Also, just in case nobody has mentioned it yet, sitting hard into your harness while still on the ground a few times will help to "set" the Hitch Hiker hitch, allowing it to tend easily. Before I sit in it a few times hard, the hitch resists tending a lot. So I sit in it, walk forward tending, sit, tend, sit, tend. After three or four quick iterations of this, the hitch tends really easily.

Tim
Click to expand...

I'll try out your setup and two others. I'm surprised how each setup differs and how the slightest change in almost anything has an impact on something.

Yes I have had a lot of issues with the HH not being consistent in grab it may be related to my climbing line. Setting the hitch is very important to getting it right. I found that if I weight it hard then collapse it it works well...but I think my technique for tying the HH knot needs work because when I weight the HH then take out the slack, the knot kind of rolls out a bit and I'm stuck with the same amount of slack that I just removed! It drives me nuts. I'm sure the issue is with the way I'm trying it..not the knot itself but my starting point in the line...something.

I'm starting to learn the best way to do it. If anybody else is having this issue...this may help you too. I first light some candles, clear my throat then hum the theme to The A-Team...than tie the knot within 8 seconds of my song...it seems to work every time!

Thanks guys!
 
It helps to get the hitch so tight that it kind of kicks the climb line off to the side a bit initially. It'll set and loosen up a little with use. It's kind of goldy locks thing for me though. Too tight and it tends like crap, too loose and it's unpredictable.
 
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  • #23
Grendel said:
It helps to get the hitch so tight that it kind of kicks the climb line off to the side a bit initially. It'll set and loosen up a little with use. It's kind of goldy locks thing for me though. Too tight and it tends like crap, too loose and it's unpredictable.
Click to expand...

I see. I have noticed the same thing. I guess breaking in the hitch cord seems to help too. I'm not so sure I'll go with this HTP climbing line again. I don't think I've seen anybody using this stuff on video with the HH. The Beeline cord didn't work that well for me...the Epicord was better but the 8mm Ocean works the best. I'm a novice so time will tell if it's me or if in fact it's the combo of rope/hitch cord.

Does an all mechanical "hybrid" device work better when it comes to pitch and rope types...like Jamie's hybrid Akimbo?
 
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  • #24
Tim_B. said:
Another thing I forgot to mention is that by putting the Hitch Hiker biner into the bottom hole of the triple attachment pulley, and another biner into the top hole, that top biner becomes my tending point for the system. The middle hole gets used for the biner going to my rope bridge's ring.

When I walk up the rope, the system tends itself easily. Also, just in case nobody has mentioned it yet, sitting hard into your harness while still on the ground a few times will help to "set" the Hitch Hiker hitch, allowing it to tend easily. Before I sit in it a few times hard, the hitch resists tending a lot. So I sit in it, walk forward tending, sit, tend, sit, tend. After three or four quick iterations of this, the hitch tends really easily.

Tim
Click to expand...

Tim this method is so whacked but works really well?! I never would have guessed that the HH would actually tends better then the "normal" method of using the tether on the top of the HH biner!
I'm kind of blown away. Now this isn't a done deal yet because my bridge is still really short. Too short.
Also, with this setup I can use the Weaver chest harness as is and it tends well.

If I use the ascender to get off the ground than "rest", when I put tension back on the rope with the foot ascender you do loss about 5" of travel as the pulley loads and flips over to the other side of the biner, but once it's loaded it doesn't do that again.

Where are you connecting your knee ascender bungee? I'm not sure if this setup will work until I get out of my basement but so far I'm impressed.

I also really like DMc's configuration as it completely eliminates the other biner.

I see what you guys are saying about the over the shoulder straps supporting your back when your in the sitting position. I'm getting that with the chest harness but I would image it would be even better with the lanyard of purpose built harness.
The only real downside...and this is minor is there is a bit more friction on the HH when "limb walking" out from the TIP. This is because the pulley is angling the rope back towards you, causing friction from the spine of the HH.

Again the tending is boarder-line ridiculous! Better than the "factory" suggestions. Now I can see why/how DMc's tending works well also.
Now I have to try it for real with a longer bridge and the knee ascender.
 
I'm not so sure I'll go with this HTP climbing line again. I don't think I've seen anybody using this stuff on video with the HH. The Beeline cord didn't work that well for me...the Epicord was better but the 8mm Ocean works the best. I'm a novice so time will tell if it's me or if in fact it's the combo of rope/hitch cord.
Click to expand...

Hey Chris, I've got a very similar combination on my Hitch Hiker. I ended up getting 140' of 11mm HTP in a bag o' rope from treestuff and it took me forever to find a system that worked with it. Using 8mm ocean poly is the only combo that I felt produced decent results. Here's a picture of what I've got. I don't climb on it a lot, but my apprentice climber loves this setup.

20160927_170045[1].jpg


I'd not recommend the 11mm HTP either. I feel like there's a reason I got a full hank of the stuff for less than half price from that random bag o' rope. Also, a friend of mine bought a new 600' spool of the 13mm HTP from a tower climbing company that was going under and he didn't seem pleased with its performance. The stuff is just super stiff and it's hard to get a system to run smoothly in it.

Chris, the HH with 8mm ocean poly is the best setup I've found for the 11mm HTP, but let me know if you come across anything better :thumbup:
 
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