Heres one to pick your brain on.

JIML

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
478
Location
Indiana
Wish I had my camera yesterday. Our climbers had one that they didn't know what to do with. So they came and got us.

Tulip poplar, 24" dbh, 70-75 feet tall. It was a co dom at one point, one side ripped off some time ago. What I was left with was a tree that leaned hard towards the line some, no real good place to put it without it hanging up, and not much to work with at the base.


All that was somehow holding it up was a small not even a half circle of good wood 6-8 inches thick. First instinct was cut it high but it had vertical cracks going up the tree on both sides that went who knows how high.


I set 2 ropes half way or a little more up, Took one 90 degrees to the lean, off to the side basically. Ran it thru a winch. Took the other in the direction of fall and ran it thru a winch.


I tensioned the rope pulling to the side a little, not much, I cut it, then let them winch it over with the other winch in the direction i wanted it to go.


It went the right way, the line off to the side ended up being more of a pain than any good, it fell against some other trees slowing it down some. It did get hung up in another poplar, had to climb it and cut it out, pretty easy really. I think if I had just had the one rope in it, it would have fell with enough momentum to fall clear.

Any tips or pointers? I was afraid to put any sort of face cut in it, wasn't much material to work with, It more or less up-rooted the one side. Im not real sure how it was still standing.

Picture explanation Red is wood thats not there anymore. Green is still good wood. The blue is what I cut.
 

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Jim, It sounds like you did about as good as could be done. Most of the side guy lines I have rigged have been a pain in the behind.....but in every case I felt compelled to ensure that however wrong things might go it couldn't fall THAT way. They all seemed unnecessary after the tree fell but not before.
 
Looks like a pretty reasonable plan to me, Jim. One thing you always have to consider when you use a restraining line, that is, the one off to the side of the lay, is what is it going to be pulled across as the tree goes over. It can really screw you up sometimes. Sounds like that's what complicated it in this case.

Anywho, I think you done good.
 
The problem with a side line is setting it 90 degrees to the fall. It ends up working against you as the tree goes over. Setting it more like 50-60 degrees from the fall would still provide the security you seek, yet allow the tree to fall without getting pulled off kilter.
 
How do you figure that Brett? As soon as it starts to fall the side line goes slack and the security is lost.
 
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  • #8
In my case the side line fell into some other trees. Probably should have done without.. Wish I could have got a truck to it, good sound wood 20 feet up.
 
Seems like the angle forward allows drift towards the lean and the angle aft pulls the tree towards the anchor...90 degrees ought to be the best I think.
 
Expounding on the B mans words:

90* keeps the tension the same, aside from the hinge failing and it holding more weight.

Less than 90* and the rope looses tension, negating it's purpose if you need control down a long target like a power line.

90*+ gets tighter as the tree falls, which can be a good thing.
 
Duh? :? I was thinking in two dimensions (temporary brain freeze, I guess). With a side pull at 90 degrees to the fall and 45 degrees from the tie-in point to the anchor, the tension on the line will remain constant throughout the fall. For some reason, I was visualizing a pull line at 90 degrees to the fall AND 90 degrees from the tie-in to the anchor, which would of course tighten up as the tree fell, pulling the tree off the lay. Next time, I'll try to remember to think BEFORE I type. :D
 
Even with the hindsight, it seems that Jim came away with a definite win.

Lack of wood that will allow a proper hinge is an omen for disaster. I got into a hurry recently, and didn't notice the rot that was coming out of the cut. The tree went it's very slight inclination of 90 degrees opposed the lay, and did some minor damage to a vehicle...the crane body that was parked there :(.
I felt like a major dork, and it ruined what had been a very challenging and successful day. Wish I had Jim there at the time, with his rope.
 
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  • #13
Still kinda hurt my pride that it got hung up, though I said it probably would before I cut it. I took a bunch of 4 foot chunks out of it to try and walk it down, wouldn't budge.


Course I got a hickory hung up today so I guess it happens :D

Bunch of thread a needle trees today. 9 I think. Being I am terrible with the throwball I spent most of my time cussing at it.
 
I try to set my stay line at such an angle (not 90 degrees unless we want the tree to swing) so that the stay does not interfere with the pull line. usually about 30-60 degrees from the pull line.. I really need to look at it more closely when we do it and get a more precise angle for reference. It varies some depending on where we really want the tree. Only slight tension is applied to the stay line also. Rob usually calls the placement based on my call on the LZ. He is better at the angle and the physics than I. But that's what I pic in my head
 
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  • #16
The tree I had hang up today, I think may have been directly related to which way I had the pull line set. I know 100% my face cut was lined up correctly. Shag bark hickory bends alot and my pull was off to the left enough, apparently, to pull it into another bigger hickory.. I was able to walk it down and get it out.
Just another day of saving the climbers from having to climb.
 
Some days just go like that... better made plans of mice and men.
Just when we think we have it all planned out and figured out, does not quite work as planned. Pretty much think we all pretty much have done that. ;)
 
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  • #18
took a couple pics yesterday
 

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i may have insisted on a line drop. 7200 isnt a big deal. but as my old boss says "alls well that lands well":D
 
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  • #20
I have been there 4 years and we have had the line killed maybe 8 times. Doesn't happen very often.
 
i dont do line work but one time a local utility called us to wreck out a huge dead red alder by the wires. not just a kill but a drop also, maximum half hour to kill and drop the line, less to put it back. under 1.5 hours total time down. i know some places like the income from the wires being up 24-7 but its cheaper than a couple poles if something goes wrong. that tree had lots of potential to go wrong
 
After seeing those pics, I probably would have cut a high face above the decay. More control than just a back cut through punky wood. If the vertical cracks were a concern, strap it to keep everything together.
 
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  • #23
Would have to be cutting way over my head.. I was more concerned with the base collapsing on me
 
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