decay detection tools

[thattreeguy]

I do a bit of consulting and reports, usually old big trees.
when there is a suspect hollow tree,
I sound em and use drill, occasionally an increment borer(lets not argue over wounding, )

I have been wondering about the use of a resistograph, i wanted to know,
1)how deep into a tree will it go, (my last tree i looked at was 69"dbh)
2)how long of a bit will it handle,
3)do they make bits long enough to get to the heart of a tree that big?
4)how long does it take to learn to accurately use and read it?
5) is it a tool worthy of owning?
6)would a shigo meter be a better way to detect decay , cracks, or hollows?

A little info from any of you who know the tools would be appreciated
I like science and always try to find solid un disputable evidence , before i form an opinion, and lately the trees are getting bigger and bigger and the targets are closer and closer, and the clients are now out of town corporations and banks etc.( i dont have a lot of trust in out of towners)
I like the idea of the paper strip that i can clearly show a client the condition of the tree, but if it will only go 12 inches inside the tree it may be a waste of $

Thank you in advance for your replies

 

[Mr. Sir]

According to their website, the maximum depth is 480 mm (18.9 inch).

I too have been considering buying the resistograph. Big investment.

The Electronic Hammer might be a better choice for larger trees, and it's less than half the price of the resistograph.

Let me know if you decide to buy one. I'd be interested in hearing how well it works for you.

 

[treesandsurf]

Depths:
130 mm (5.12 inch)
280 mm (11.02 inch)
380 mm (14.96 inch)
480 mm (18.9 inch)

This is from their site:

http://www.imlusa.com/html/iml_resistograph.html



jp

 

[treesandsurf]

Anyone have experience with the electronic hammer, looks spiffy!

jp

 

[misterTee]

The resistograph isn't used that much in the UK anymore - rightly or wrongly.

If you are interested in new innovations for decay detection, I have been looking at using thermal imaging cameras for looking at tree health. It won't do the same things as a Picus tomograph or resistograph but seems to be showing up some interesting things so far.

You can read a bit about it at www.thermoecology.net

cheers,
Paul

 

[Wagnaw]

1)The drill bit tat comes with it is about 18", but you wouldn't need anything longer. If you have 18" of sound wood all around the tree, I'd say it's good.
2)It only takes one length bit I think. I mean... the drilling depth is traced onto a sheet of paper with rulers on it the directly corresponds to the actual depth.
3)Not that I know of.
4)About two seconds. ...translating the results to customers and using it as a decision making tool is the hard part.
5) If you frequently have trees that have defects but don't NEED to be removed, or if you are trying to argue a decision to remove or judge a tree with another arborist, I could see it being helpful. Among people educated about how to read the results, this tool is just as easy to down-play as any other, but to most people, it's like, "Here look at this fancy graph I made showing the inside of your tree. ....oooooooooooo."
6)I don't know anything about Shigometers.

Here are some photos of a seminar I went to though....

 

[Wagnaw]

If you look at the second photo, the graph paper is under the Plexiglas that runs along the top of the unit. I little tracer (like the kind that record earthquakes) follows the back of the drill bit and records the resistance that the drill bit encounters. You can take out the paper as a record of the reading once you've brought the bit back in.

 

[SkwerI]

I wonder how effective it is at overcoming arborphobia?

Homeowners have an knack for nodding in agreement with you as you explain that the tree is fine, then call another tree company the next week to cut it down because "I was afraid it would fall on my house". :roll:

I've all but given up on trying to educate people on their trees. Just give me the money and I'll cut it down. 20 years of trying to save trees has left me broke. I need to make a living.

 

[Wagnaw]

Yeah, a resistograph is good as a way to show customers a piece of paper, tell the customer that the piece of paper says that you need to do something (which is really just whatever you want to do), and the customer feels a little better cause a piece of paper says so.


BUT! If said tree falls over, you're in deep. Even deeper than if you hadn't used the resistograph because you had an advanced tool, yada yada... Where as, if you just use the ol' judgement call, you have more wiggle room to say you're not liable.

 

[thattreeguy]

BUT! If said tree falls over, you're in deep. Even deeper than if you hadn't used the resistograph because you had an advanced tool, yada yada... Where as, if you just use the ol' judgement call, you have more wiggle room to say you're not liable.

thats the 1 drawback to trying...liability
thats the only thing that sucks about being certified, being held more accountable than others
i get A mixture of trees that it would be nice to know more about the internal condition of some of these trees, before i say it's ok to keep or tell them to kill it.
A lot of people here are environmentally aware and dont want to kill a tree unless it has to go
some times i know it has to go and so do all the neighbors, but the person who owns it wants more proof than listening to a mallet hit a tree

Thank you all for your info, thayt was great
Im still reading some of the links that were sent,
id wonderered about using the vol. fire depts. camera for looking at a tree before, mainly for wildlife in the hollows, but who knew it could see inside a tree,

the other little tool from iml the soundwave measuring electronic hammer device looks promising as well, here are my random thoughts on it
1) can you take it up a tree, like every 10 ft or so and perform the test, to assess the trunk conditions of a tree,
2)or can it do it all from the ground, i dont think it could tell me about a hollow at 100ft from terra firma, i think you have to climb the tree
maybe im to used to sounding trunks,
3) no need for longer drill bits, equalls no limitations to dbh..i like that idea
4) does anyone have one?

WAGNAW!!! THANKS, for the cool pics and info on the resisto graph, thank you all agaian for your help, off to wake up kids for school

 

[thattreeguy]

once again whats the time requirement to learn to use the electronic hammer, wagnaw says resisto graph is 2 seconds, so how about this tool and digital set up?