Good catch, Bermy! There are a sh## load of things that can fail during a work climb. The best protection will always come from using your head and not blindingly trusting your gear.
Dave
Carabiner rolled open
- Thread starter Bermy
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Good catch, Bermy! There are a sh## load of things that can fail during a work climb. The best protection will always come from using your head and not blindingly trusting your gear.
Dave
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Any click sound during a climb is good reason to stop immediately and do a gear check. And the absence of a click too.
Butch, the keepers on those snaps you use can jam open if they get bent in the least or get leaves or twigs jammed in the works. It happen to me once. About 150 feet up. I just happened to look down and see it. I had my weight in the climbline, but had I introduce any slack the slider ring on my saddle would surely have fallen out. It gave me a sick feeling to see it.
The twist lock gates on bieners are more subject to rolling open than most people think.
and then making the gates on bieners more complicated to open really doesn't help the matter either. there's no simple solution other than paying attention to your gear and what's happening all the time.
Butch, the keepers on those snaps you use can jam open if they get bent in the least or get leaves or twigs jammed in the works. It happen to me once. About 150 feet up. I just happened to look down and see it. I had my weight in the climbline, but had I introduce any slack the slider ring on my saddle would surely have fallen out. It gave me a sick feeling to see it.
The twist lock gates on bieners are more subject to rolling open than most people think.
and then making the gates on bieners more complicated to open really doesn't help the matter either. there's no simple solution other than paying attention to your gear and what's happening all the time.
F
Frax
Guest
Spooky stories! Glad you are all OK. And you are because you checked your stuff.
My gear (snaps and biners) have always worked properly. But my brain....not 100%. Climbing in really cold conditions with heavy gloves and thick coat, snapping on lanyard by feel. Not good enough. I did fortunately check and saw that I had clipped into the 'keychain" type biner on my hand saw scabbard. I now carry only rated biners even for just attaching gear and always do a visual.
My gear (snaps and biners) have always worked properly. But my brain....not 100%. Climbing in really cold conditions with heavy gloves and thick coat, snapping on lanyard by feel. Not good enough. I did fortunately check and saw that I had clipped into the 'keychain" type biner on my hand saw scabbard. I now carry only rated biners even for just attaching gear and always do a visual.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
... even though OSHA disagrees ... I run old school non locker rope snaps on safeties ... Petzl yellow barrels on climb lines ... I visually check my non lockers EVERY time I engage them ...
chris_girard
Treehouser
I remember you saying this years ago Jer when I first atarted climbing and have never forgotten it. It's always in the back of my mind on every climb.
Bermy, I am very glad to hear that you are ok.
Jed
TreeHouser
Fiona: Holy Smoke! That's NEVER happened to be before.
Jer: Thanks again for the advice. I've got an aluminum version of the kind of snap that Butch uses on my saw lanyard. Two weeks ago it mysteriously popped open while removing a dead Doug, when I routinely through my saw over my flipline. The 200T fell about 40' into the duff. No broken gas tank or bent bar!
Jer: Thanks again for the advice. I've got an aluminum version of the kind of snap that Butch uses on my saw lanyard. Two weeks ago it mysteriously popped open while removing a dead Doug, when I routinely through my saw over my flipline. The 200T fell about 40' into the duff. No broken gas tank or bent bar!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
Words to survive by Gerry.
I always knew that a rollout could happen, now I've seen it.
I have a friend over here who is recovering from a 20m fall, he had been fliplining up a bare stem of a euc and thinks the snap on his lanyard came open and when he leaned back it was not clipped in. He had gotten past the first main fork ok, using a typical changeover with his main line, but went back to just the flip to continue going up, there was some thought that he'd clipped into a gear biner like Frax said or a small gear loop, but nothing on his harness showed any signs of strain, so the investigation returns to the snap...
I always knew that a rollout could happen, now I've seen it.
I have a friend over here who is recovering from a 20m fall, he had been fliplining up a bare stem of a euc and thinks the snap on his lanyard came open and when he leaned back it was not clipped in. He had gotten past the first main fork ok, using a typical changeover with his main line, but went back to just the flip to continue going up, there was some thought that he'd clipped into a gear biner like Frax said or a small gear loop, but nothing on his harness showed any signs of strain, so the investigation returns to the snap...
S
SydTreeguy
Guest
If it's not a bit of gear that needs to come on and off the beener then keeping it captive might give you a small extra measure of safety. You can make something up pretty easy with an O ring, here's an example in the pic below
If you look closely at how the blue sling attaches to the gold carabiner, there is an O ring retaining it. Take a look at one in a shop next time you get a chance, it's not as obvious as it seems and you have to twist the o ring before you cross it over. Works well though. They have pre made rubber retainers for slings available in rock climbing stores, but for ropes the O ring works better.
I've seen some guys using thick wide rubber bands on their spliced eyes to tighten the eye down. I climb on spliced eyes and havent tried it. It looks like it would only be marginally effective. There is some advantage to using a self tightening anchor knot on your rope in this regard. I guess I could try using a clove hitch on my beeline to retain it, but it's nice hanging free as it does. Having a slack tender slightly reduces the risk of popout in a rollopen scenario, but only if the slack tender is pretty tight.
Shaun
If you look closely at how the blue sling attaches to the gold carabiner, there is an O ring retaining it. Take a look at one in a shop next time you get a chance, it's not as obvious as it seems and you have to twist the o ring before you cross it over. Works well though. They have pre made rubber retainers for slings available in rock climbing stores, but for ropes the O ring works better.
I've seen some guys using thick wide rubber bands on their spliced eyes to tighten the eye down. I climb on spliced eyes and havent tried it. It looks like it would only be marginally effective. There is some advantage to using a self tightening anchor knot on your rope in this regard. I guess I could try using a clove hitch on my beeline to retain it, but it's nice hanging free as it does. Having a slack tender slightly reduces the risk of popout in a rollopen scenario, but only if the slack tender is pretty tight.
Shaun
vharrison
Island Girl
Wow, thanks for the discussion. I know what the Monday morning safety meeting will be about. Fiona, glad you are okay. Are you back in Bermuda?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #35
Nope, I'm in Tasmania...I was up a big ash tree and wiggling down to the tips, the situation itself led to a bit more caution which is probably why I heard it and saw it before anything really nasty happened! As soon as I backed away from the branches the gate snapped shut again on its own.
MooseHunter113
TreeHouser
Ive heard that same noise before Fiona and when I looked down the tail of my rope was inside my biner. It's a nasty feeling to know it opened while I was in the air. I used to not pay attention to which way my biners were facing but now they always face inside (my stomach) and I've yet to have it happen again. I check my system multiple times now while climbing. It's a good habit to be in anyways.
G
Greenhorn
Guest
Used to clip lanyard on by feel a lot, would sometimes get a bit of t-shirt in there - its always a creepy moment finding out you just worked off or almost worked off a partially secure connection.
Have you stopped doing it by feel, I hope? If not, it's when, not if, you will fall.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
By feel is sometimes the only way we can accomplish getting around in this work. Click!
In utility work the lineman has at times clipped into a tool on his belt rather than the Dee. With some sad stories to follow.
It is certainly prudent to do an eye check in any case.
Oh, I did line work for a short while and that was one of the safety stories that followed it.
In utility work the lineman has at times clipped into a tool on his belt rather than the Dee. With some sad stories to follow.
It is certainly prudent to do an eye check in any case.
Oh, I did line work for a short while and that was one of the safety stories that followed it.
G
Greenhorn
Guest
Do you look at your connections 100 percent of the time after hooking whatever up?
When I am temporarily only tied in with one line i always look at it before putting weight on it but as a secondary tie in, (lanyard in most cases) I probably do it more by feel than I care to think about.
Good thread this is....
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hooking my lanyard = feel, then sight.
Hooking my saw = sight, then feel.
Is that unnerstanable?
Hooking my saw = sight, then feel.
Is that unnerstanable?
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Makes sense to me!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Of course they are both interchangeable, especially the last one.
Burnham
Woods walker
I remember a long time ago, when I was a lot younger and worked a lot faster, clipping a cable core lanyard snaphook by feel after a limb-over manuever. Flipped and climbed about three flips worth without putting any significant pressure on the D's, just holding the lanyard in each hand.
Came up under another place needing to limb-over, and leaned back on the lanyard in prep to throw the second one above the limb. When I leaned back on the lanyard, the pull on the snaphook side didn't feel right, like it came from an angle that wasn't normal...looked to see what was wrong and saw I'd missed the D and clipped into a hard plastic gear loop a few inches behind it
.
Heart rate goes up in a new york second to thumpity-thump range in such a situation. I even remember a flash of heat and sweat up the back of my neck and into my scalp. I was well over 100 feet up.
Learned a leason that day. Maybe still alive 20+ years of tree climbing later because of it.
Came up under another place needing to limb-over, and leaned back on the lanyard in prep to throw the second one above the limb. When I leaned back on the lanyard, the pull on the snaphook side didn't feel right, like it came from an angle that wasn't normal...looked to see what was wrong and saw I'd missed the D and clipped into a hard plastic gear loop a few inches behind it
.Heart rate goes up in a new york second to thumpity-thump range in such a situation. I even remember a flash of heat and sweat up the back of my neck and into my scalp. I was well over 100 feet up.
Learned a leason that day. Maybe still alive 20+ years of tree climbing later because of it.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Damn straight. I've had a couple of those moments...
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Heart certainly skips a beat on a moment like that... Funny feeling in the stomach as well
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #48
Burnham, that sounds like what probably happened to my friend who fell 20m, that or the jammed open snap scenario...he's lucky to be alive, not paralyzed, and a good prognosis for the future, after a year or so of rehab.
Burnham
Woods walker
That's a long way to the ground, Bermy...nasty.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #50
Horrible...about 60' straight down no bouncing til the bottom....he landed in the chipper feed tray on one foot, his spike punched through the metal, shattered his foot into a hundred little pieces, two cracked vertebrae, bruised ribs, broken eye socket. He had that external brace thing on his foot for a few months, the one with pins and rods going into the body, got that off in early January...he's wizzing around on crutches now with just an aircast, and starting to drive an automatic and going to start his Master's degree while he rehabs, and he's still going around doing tree assessments...26 yrs old...amazing.
We had just been talking about rolled open connectors a couple weeks ago when mine occurred, hence the thread.
We had just been talking about rolled open connectors a couple weeks ago when mine occurred, hence the thread.
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