Better way to tie running bowline?

[emr]

We glazed two separate rigging lines recently when running bowlines cinched up and the rope on rope friction damaged the rope. Both times we were cranking with the GRCS. I would just use a clevis but I am concerned with the pin spinning out. I would also use a delta or similar but that's too time consuming. Are there any other options?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Make smaller cuts.

 

[emr]

That goes against the reason for using the GRCS.

 

[rskybiz]

Then I quess you can expect a lil glaze I wish I had a answer I use a timber hitch and still see it happen under severe loading.

I climb to set it which may defeat your purpose. Bright side=always at the end of your rope

 

[emr]

So let me better explain the rigging..... It only happens when we tip tie a branch and lift up. The running bowline is set from the ground with a throwline.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

What line are you using???

 

[emr]

Today it was XTC 1/2". It actually completely cut 2 strands out of 16. The other time it was Dynasorb 9/16".

 

[Burnham]

Steel biner, rather than the clevis or delta, maybe?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Use Stable braid or Teufelberger next time. Why would you lift with a stretchy line like Dynasorb?
You need a more static line.
Biner works fine. Otherwise you really need to get up there and set the bowline.
A more heat resistant line wiht less stretch is going to serve you much better IMO

 

[emr]

We looked at getting a Teufelberger line but the strength wasn't there. We just ordered a new 5/8" and wanted stronger than the 14k lbs that it offered. Because we needed a bigger line for catching wood when negative blocking. I agree that the Dynasorb is probably not the best in for lifting but do you think that could add to the glazing?

 

[murphy4trees]

double up the bowline to reduce bend ratio.. that MIGHT help..
one other thing to look at is the cut... sounds like you're lifting more than just the weight of the piece.. if its got to fight a fat hinge or the like, its gonna take A LOT more force..

 

[SouthSoundTree]

More stretch equals more narrowing of the line, equals more slippage at the knot, would be my Guess.

Good bend radius on a clevis on a spliced eye. You can always wire or zip-tie the pin in place, if really concerned.

What sized limb were you lifting?

Agree with Daniel on the hinge thickness. Maybe gut the center of the hinge to reduce the amount of fibers bent while still maintaining holding wood at the corners.

 

[emr]

Yesterday we were lifting an dead Ash limb that was about 10" in diameter and 25' long. Nothing too large by any stretch of the imagination.

I was on the ground so I'm not sure how thick the hinge was. We usually pretension the line before the cut so the line is "fairly" tight. Then the climber will cut to the final thickness, which obviously depends on the so situation.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

More stretch equals more narrowing of the line, equals more slippage at the knot, would be my Guess.

Good bend radius on a clevis on a spliced eye. You can always wire or zip-tie the pin in place, if really concerned.

What sized limb were you lifting?

Agree with Daniel on the hinge thickness. Maybe gut the center of the hinge to reduce the amount of fibers bent while still maintaining holding wood at the corners.

Pretty much spot on....IMO More stretch ... more friction in the knot while tensioning leading to glazing if pulled tight enough. WileyP, Dave probably has some to add to all this,,,

 

[PCTREE]

IMO GRCS = bigger pieces = bigger risk

They definitely have their place like lifting trees off of houses when there is no equipment access but generally I prefer to climb out further and cut smaller.

 

[emr]

I totally agree. I really don't feel that way. My guess is that most tree guys would get a laugh out of how small we typically rig things.

 

[sotc]

Tie the bowline to the pin and run the standing end through the rest of the shackel, shouldn't spin the pin out. Our just make sure the rope runs through the direction that tightens the pin

 

[MasterBlaster]

Just make sure the rope runs through the direction that tightens the pin!

This needs repeating!

 

[Grendel]

Tie the bowline to the pin and run the standing end through the rest of the shackle, shouldn't spin the pin out. Our just make sure the rope runs through the direction that tightens the pin

This seems like an excellent solution. Delta link would probably be my choice, not really so different time-wise from a shackle. Going up and maybe a locked off clove hitch?

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Just make sure the rope runs through the direction that tightens the pin!

This needs repeating!

This sounds like a mistake waiting to happen on the hot, tired, sunny, cold, rainy, windy, something, something.




Sounds a bit like when someone wants to pull over a tree, pull the rope really tight then cut. I cut with the rope slightly tensioned, then back away and pull. You are setting up for a barber chair by pretensioning hard.

My first real crane job...I asked for 500 pounds pretension. The limb didn't even weight that...first real crane job...and it was mostly supported on the but. 100 pounds would have been fine, monitoring the kerf during the cutting. Are you two using Ropetek's Sena set-up? I will not go back to technical work without them.

 

[Jed]

IMO GRCS = bigger pieces = bigger risk

They definitely have their place like lifting trees off of houses when there is no equipment access but generally I prefer to climb out further and cut smaller.

uuhhmmm... Yeah... Just about every good tree-guy I've ever met, feels that way. We use our GRCS (winch: the bollard we use more) about once every nine months, and even then, it's always debatable as to whether it would have been faster to have gone out further, and taken it smaller. Different strokes. Our trouble, is that our ground guys are so dang slow with the saws, that it's always going to save the climber time just to give em stuff that they can easily get into the chipper.

 

[Bodean]

Glaze on a rope is like wear on a tire, stuff gets used and worn.

If you're smoking ropes every cut, you should re-evaluate.

 

[Burnham]

Glaze on a rope is like wear on a tire, stuff gets used and worn.

If you're smoking ropes every cut, you should re-evaluate.

This...in spades.

 

[treesmith]

Careful attention to the direction of the knot might help, as the harder it bites into the eye, the more apt it is to fuse fibers.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

You can double a piece of throwline throught the RB in order to pull-back on it. I do this sometimes when I'm not sure I will like the choke I get on a spar as set from the ground. I can manipulate it by pulling the throwline back, either to keep tension on the rope and keep it from snagging on stubs/ limbs, or as an opportunity to pull it all the way back down. This will be similar to what you could do with a long RB tail. I can then pull the throwline out after setting the rope.