Aluminum ring and ring friction saver question

[Raj]

I've spliced up an aluminum ring and ring friction saver on some 1/2 inch 16 strand arbormastor rope, I've had only one climb, using a clean and fairly new 1/2 inch Allgear neolight 16 strand rope, DdRT, may be went up 15 ft, out 6 ft on a limb and then down, and left these marks on the aluminum rings, they are noticeable by touch. Having never used aluminum before (always steel) is this normal??



Thanks, Peter.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'm a steel man, myself.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I'm a natural crotch man, myself, with a stationary rope.

But on a serious note, is your rope clean? A new rope drug through sand once might be dirtier than an old rope that was always kept clean.

 

[Raj]

It's a fairly new rope, bought about 8 months ago, used 4 times, no sand or dirt, I usually keep excess in a bag on/near the ground or on a tarp.

 

[Burnham]

Normal, for a non-hardcoated aluminum ring.

Not my first choice for a ring and ring FS. I like hardcoated aluminum, but steel is more popular with most working climbers, I think.

 

[PCTREE]

personally I don't like aluminum where steel can be used.

I don't give 2 hoots about weight but hate when gear fails.

That is a terrible application for Al

B I cannot believe you use hard coat, I just had a bad experience with it that cost me $500, an 800 foot rope.

 

[Raj]

Most climbs I use weaver leather cambium savers, next I use a steel ring and ring, where it would apply better and on spars, I just spliced the aluminum ring and ring for really no other reason than just-for-the-heck-of-it....

 

[MasterBlaster]

800 foot rope???

 

[PCTREE]

tower dude

 

[MasterBlaster]

Tower? Gotta a backstory to that? My highest was 450', no ropes - all free climbing. I made $100.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Made another $100 on a 325', changing a light bulb, CIRCA '78.

 

[PCTREE]

There are some tower guys out there that have Wraptors. They tend to wear the hubs out pretty quick due to the long ascents so for one guy who has 4 units we tried a hard coat anodize. The hardcoat really improved the wear but when it did wear through it ended up with very sharp edges and shreeded the 800' rope it was on. He was pretty pissed about the rope, even though he was fully aware that the hardcoat was an experiment. I agreed to replace his hub with a tool steel one which has a $500 value... I would imagine the tool steel hub will last indefinately.

 

[r0ck1r0ck2]

this has happened to my new sterling FS.
what's the word then?

retire or not?

 

[Grendel]

I've shied away from aluminum for this very reason. I like the steel rings.

 

[Raj]

I have the same ISC large ring on my cougar webbing bridge, have had about 30 climbs on it thus far, no signs of any wear, but I guess it's due to a larger contact area and less feet per minute of moving friction.

 

[Burnham]

personally I don't like aluminum where steel can be used.

I don't give 2 hoots about weight but hate when gear fails.

That is a terrible application for Al

B I cannot believe you use hard coat, I just had a bad experience with it that cost me $500, an 800 foot rope.

Apples and oranges, I think...after reading your explanatory post to Butch.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Probably should send mine in for a new hub Paul. I'll stick with the aluminium though.

 

[HolmenTree]

I have both steel and aluminum ring friction savers. The aluminum one has dark grey kind of a rough surface rings, I got it stuck in a crotch once on retrieval and pulled on the lowest ring with my pull saw putting a little cut in it. Doing further possible damage I retrieved it from the TIP by pulling it out with the climbing line, it fell about 50 feet and landed on a cement sidewalk resulting in a loud clank.

At that time I asked my climbing instructor Dwayne N. if I should retire the aluminum FS. He said yes...the saw cut nick wasn't as critical as the impact it suffered on the hard sidewalk. He said that impact could weaken the ring significantly from testing he had seen from Buckingham who manufacture these F.S.'s.

 

[Raj]

I've sent an email off to ISC, this was their response, which does make sense, but for comfort... not too sure....

"Thank you for your e-mail.

As I am sure you will appreciate, any contact on the surface of the rings will cause a certain amount of wear.

We have carried out some in-house trials, and we have found that the rings rubbing together does cause this sort of wear. If the wear is creating solely by rope rubbing, it is a more polished wear pattern.



I hope this helps."

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I have both steel and aluminum ring friction savers. The aluminum one has dark grey kind of a rough surface rings, I got it stuck in a crotch once on retrieval and pulled on the lowest ring with my pull saw putting a little cut in it. Doing further possible damage I retrieved it from the TIP by pulling it out with the climbing line, it fell about 50 feet and landed on a cement sidewalk resulting in a loud clank.

At that time I asked my climbing instructor Dwayne N. if I should retire the aluminum FS. He said yes...the saw cut nick wasn't as critical as the impact it suffered on the hard sidewalk. He said that impact could weaken the ring significantly from testing he had seen from Buckingham who manufacture these F.S.'s.

As a contrasting anecdote, I HEARD that POssibly Black Diamond, or some other main rock climbing gear co, had scavenged pieces of anchor gear found in the talus at the base of El Cap. If the units weren't obviously damaged, I HEARD they were as strong.

I, PERSONALLY, still say ditch the R and R. Go SRT and a foot ascender or ropewalker. Inconsistent friction SUCKS, as I'm reminded almost every time I DDRT. Stationary rope, or a pulley instead of RandR, IMO.



A non-isolated crotch with a floating DdRT on a pulley, with ground-lowering rescue potential, seems the way to go, unless you can easily and quickly isolate your crotch.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Or use steel rings....

 

[Peter]

DMM have done a lot of testing on used aluminium gear, and they say the more you hammer it the stronger it gets.

 

[Burnham]

Maybe not quite THAT ...but I have seen plenty of testing that debunks the "micro-cracks resulting from hard impacts" theories.

 

[HolmenTree]

A non-isolated crotch with a floating DdRT on a pulley, with ground-lowering rescue potential, seems the way to go, unless you can easily and quickly isolate your crotch.

With the help of my good friend the Big Shot I have installed R & R friction savers from the ground to a nice high isolated crotch for so many years now that it's second nature......and I really enjoy watching the look on bystanders faces when I do it too right down to when I finish threading my climbing line up and down through it back down to my saddle...........then ready for takeoff on the footlock.