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:dude:

interesting link pete. didnt understand the graphs very well but photos were good. looked like the steel held up well, and the long aluminum (aluminium:) ) ones didnt. short steel biners seem like they would do ok for the most part. i do like the shackel idea though, ill look further intothat

sure its true, most ropes break at the marl, it takes the load, the rest would have to travel around the wood to get to the biner

thats the best comment on this thread sean8)

i guess i dont see very much side loading. looking at that las pic shows the position that they usualy are loaded. the weight seems to be along the spine for the most part.

the only time ive seen a biner break was on one (kong?) that had a black potmetal(it seemed) lock and the lock broke, not the biner. i use heavy steel biners all the time and other than that one instance (trashed the rest we had like that one) ive never had even a close call

i use steel biners like that for rigging also.

nice shots roger! the butt hitch photo is kinda spooky as you can see the hitches get some slack:\: