sales

[treetx]

It is also worth noting that the more the sale is B to C, the less relationship based the sale and the more transactional the sale. The more transactional, the less chance of any relationship after the sale or any future sale, and the more chances of being lied to.

 

[Mick!]

Ah, the old “do this cheap for me I’ll get you loads of local work, I know people”

Translates as “everyone round here thinks I’m a wanker”

 

[treetx]

The " If you do this project cheap for me, I will get you all sorts of good paying jobs, because I know everybody.” Is an awesome chestnut. How about I do it for full price, you see value in my service, refer your good jobs, and I'll discount you in the future bucause I sure don't want your referrals saying this guy is cheap.

 

[PCTREE]

Since covid hit my wife finds out if they have Big trees that need to come down, if they do she gets a description of where the tree is located on the property and has them mark it for identification. I stop by at my convenience and take a look and then call them back with a price. Amazing how much time and stress is saved by not making appointments . If the customer doesn't want to mark the tree we literally tell them to call some one else!

 

[Bodean]

Yes on all fronts!

 

[Tree09]

Yeah, I'm still not buying it (see what i did there ). To the what are you looking for, nothing bit: that's because saying "i don't want a shadow following me around vomiting bullshit so frig off and die" is socially unacceptable. The buyer is often looking at the situation that the salesman is a flat out lier, so what he does to hold onto his money is fine. The fact that a lying greedy salesman is a stock character and a cliche kinda says it all. Same with the guy selling stuff on the street/market/door to door/stock broker, all stock characters that are notoriously shady because they sell stuff for a living. Like the banker profession, it's a profession that has been held at arms length by most people and viewed as unholy and corrupt. Trying to flip the script and say the customer is the bad guy is ludicrous, but you're right, they will likely lie according to how they view you.

If they don't trust you, they will lie again and again because they assume you are too, so if they are lying to you it's a moment to reassess why they think that way before moving forward. If they do the "it died yesterday" shit, it's best to stop, call it out, and then reassure them that you are there to help them deal with this problem safely and for a fair price. Uncomfortable honesty is the only way forward, but for many people/ businesses that's not acceptable. Rather than trying to stick people with crappy merchandise the proper thing to do is take the loss, but that isn't how it works is it? So honestly, the reputation is often deserved.

 

[BIGTWIG]

Yeah, I'm still not buying it (see what i did there ). To the what are you looking for, nothing bit: that's because saying "i don't want a shadow following me around vomiting bullshit so frig off and die" is socially unacceptable. The buyer is often looking at the situation that the salesman is a flat out lier, so what he does to hold onto his money is fine. The fact that a lying greedy salesman is a stock character and a cliche kinda says it all. Same with the guy selling stuff on the street/market/door to door/stock broker, all stock characters that are notoriously shady because they sell stuff for a living. Like the banker profession, it's a profession that has been held at arms length by most people and viewed as unholy and corrupt. Trying to flip the script and say the customer is the bad guy is ludicrous, but you're right, they will likely lie according to how they view you.

If they don't trust you, they will lie again and again because they assume you are too, so if they are lying to you it's a moment to reassess why they think that way before moving forward. If they do the "it died yesterday" shit, it's best to stop, call it out, and then reassure them that you are there to help them deal with this problem safely and for a fair price. Uncomfortable honesty is the only way forward, but for many people/ businesses that's not acceptable. Rather than trying to stick people with crappy merchandise the proper thing to do is take the loss, but that isn't how it works is it? So honestly, the reputation is often deserved.

What lies do you have to tell to sell tree work

 

[Tree09]

? None. My point was that most people who only sell for a living are thought to be untrustworthy, and trying to say it's the buyers fault is dumb. What's your point?

 

[Frankie]

The job sells itself IF you are dependable and have a proven track record but this takes time to develop. You must have the reputation of an outfit that shows up and does the job for a fair price without any undue fanfare. Imho Repeat customers /word of mouth are your best friends. Anyone that’s telling cock and bull stories to the customer to get tree work/processing jobs is going to be in for a rude awakening ... and an empty wallet

 

[BIGTWIG]

? None. My point was that most people who only sell for a living are thought to be untrustworthy, and trying to say it's the buyers fault is dumb. What's your point?

As a tree company owner who’s livelihood and team’s success relies on sales, I was just curious as to what your magic was.

 

[Tree09]

I think I'm not getting my point across well. I don't have any special magic, and i don't lie to sell work. My point was most people, myself included, don't trust salesmen at all. I personally usually despise them, and i know I'm not alone in that either. Since we all here have to sell stuff to make money, blaming the customer for this reality is counter productive. When you catch a customer in a lie, that is showing you what they are thinking of you: that it's OK to lie to you because they don't trust you. By calling them out on their lie, and explaining your viewpoint to them and how you hope to help them but need to do it safely, you will gain their trust by being truthful and sincere. You shouldn't be trying to "sell" to people, but rather be trying to help them.

A dedicated salesman will have a very hard time getting this point across, because they wont be on the tools doing the job. If my small part time tree business ever gets big enough to require someone to handle sales, i think i would have the leader of the crews/foreman be the ones to bid the jobs. That way they know the efficiency of the actual crew they work with every day, and will be the guy the customer sees and deals with when the whole thing happens. There's someone who the customer has dealt with for the whole process. For someone like me who dislikes salesmen (most people), that is how you make them happier, because it's much more personal.

 

[Mick!]

We all bs a bit, usually by omission or exaggeration.

 

[Grnjp]

I never even acknowledged the statement if spoke to me. Just kept moving on with the scope of job customer wanted. However when in front of my desk, well that phrase added atleast 10 to 15 percent to the quote!

The " If you do this project cheap for me, I will get you all sorts of good paying jobs, because I know everybody.” Is an awesome chestnut. How about I do it for full price, you see value in my service, refer your good jobs, and I'll discount you in the future bucause I sure don't want your referrals saying this guy is cheap.

 

[Grnjp]

Tree09, I understand your view point and if you're doing 20 to 50 grand a year of work, you have time to talk and bullshit with customers. But when you are selling much more than that... well not so much time.
My job required me to keep 15 to 20 guys busy atleast 5 days a week. The company I worked for had good branding and great reputation. And for the most part good men working for it. I had atleast 5 call ins on a slow day spread out over about a 50 mile radius. During storm season 20 25 30. Big complex jobs, sure you spend time with the customers. Smaller jobs, not so much. Time spent bullshiting cuts into the bottom line.

 

[treetx]

Bullshitting with customers cuts into the bottom line, especially for those of you in a rush to commoditize yourselves.

Kyle - you don't have to buy it for it to be true. People who buy are, in general, far less than forthcoming than people who sell. They justify it via stereotypes or by "wanting to hold onto their cash". It doesn't make sense to be less than forthcoming to someone who is trying to help you solve a problem and when did greed justify being a liar? If it is not ok for the seller, it is not ok for the buyer. Period.

But let's say you are right, stereotypes are there for a reason. Sweet. What does that say about blacks, mexicans, gays, or for that matter women? Stereotypes exist for a reason so they must be true, right? Stereotypes exist usually because people are A) intellectually lazy or B) want to justify their own poor behavior.

 

[Grnjp]

09 I agree with your statement about your leads knowing how long the job takes. Earlier in this thread I brought that point up. Better to elevate from the crew's an individual who knows the scope of work. Alternatively you set numbers that have to be met. I.e. take down=x distance to truck=x and so on. But you will have to set those numbers to the weakest crew you run. Gives you no flexibility. If I have a great fast crew I can give the little old lady a price that I can't give if my slower still decent crew has to do the job.

 

[Grnjp]

Not going to get into the rest of your post. Just first line to the comma. Lol it is true that if you are starting out as a small business you absolutely need to be able to sell yourself. Because that's what you are doing. People are going to go with you because of your interaction with them. At that level you probably aren't using a salesman. You need to be able to read a person and talk to them at that level. Once you are established, great reputation, great guys working. Then no you have very little time to spend on the interpersonal relationship with the customers. Your crews are your interaction with the customer.

Bullshitting with customers cuts into the bottom line, especially for those of you in a rush to commoditize yourselves.

Kyle - you don't have to buy it for it to be true. People who buy are, in general, far less than forthcoming than people who sell. They justify it via stereotypes or by "wanting to hold onto their cash". It doesn't make sense to be less than forthcoming to someone who is trying to help you solve a problem and when did greed justify being a liar? If it is not ok for the seller, it is not ok for the buyer. Period.

But let's say you are right, stereotypes are there for a reason. Sweet. What does that say about blacks, mexicans, gays, or for that matter women? Stereotypes exist for a reason so they must be true, right? Stereotypes exist usually because people are A) intellectually lazy or B) want to justify their own poor behavior.

 

[Grnjp]

Also, sorry if I'm rambling.

 

[Mick!]

If by bullshitting with customers you mean chatting away about irrelevant stuff (As opposed to bullshitting TO clients) then I think if, yes, take ten minutes out to chew the fat, sometimes take a coffee, discuss the plants etc. It can get you the job.
Having said that I’m only running one crew (me plus whoever) so keeping 20 guys busy is a different kettle of fish.
I often turn down a coffee and say I’m in a hurry, and driving away I realise I should have gone in and had a chat.

 

[Tree09]

I'm not saying you should hang out and bullshit with customers at all, I usually spend at most 10 min on a bid just because I'm mentally calculating my time I'm going to have to spend. I'm saying that most people despise salesmen, that's not their problem that they do, and if they are lying to you it's a reflection of what they are thinking about you. I don't care that the stereotype in this case is often true, I'm simply acknowledging that it's there. If they start lying, they don't trust you at that moment. So it's worth using the next 5 sentences you speak to them to reset the frame of the conversation to reflect that before spitting a number out and driving away. Finally, the guys doing the work likely make better sales, because they are the ones doing it. That way they aren't bidding for 10 different crews, they are bidding for their crew and that's it. If bidding is as simple as just giving them a number, why the hell would i even get out of the truck?

 

[treetx]

I'll agree with you there. I will also highlight that "reading a person and talking to them at that level" is sales. In every case you have more chances to increase margins and add volume by interacting with customers but I'll agree that less time is needed on interpersonal relationships with selling treework unless you are dealing with large commercial accounts. B2B is inherently far more relationship based. B2C is inherently far more transactionally based. Residential treework is as B2C as it gets.

 

[Grnjp]

It often is a fine line. And knowing people is important. If we are talking about a 1000 dollar job I want to spend as little time as possible. My pay is coming out of that job. If it's 100000 that's different. There should be more cream in that job to pay me. Lol doesn't always work that way but it's numbers.

If by bullshitting with customers you mean chatting away about irrelevant stuff (As opposed to bullshitting TO clients) then I think if, yes, take ten minutes out to chew the fat, sometimes take a coffee, discuss the plants etc. It can get you the job.
Having said that I’m only running one crew (me plus whoever) so keeping 20 guys busy is a different kettle of fish.
I often turn down a coffee and say I’m in a hurry, and driving away I realise I should have gone in and had a chat.

 

[treetx]

I don't believe for a minute "most people despise salespeople". I buy that most people despise being ripped off or having time wasted.

Any tradesman - carpenter, plumber, electrician, arborist, landscaper, ferrier, welder, etc that also quotes their own work is a salesman. I don't believe for a minute most people despise them. If you submit bids to customers, you are a salesperson - I don't believe you are despised.

 

[Grnjp]

And what I'm saying is that if you don't need to meet with the customer it's a better use of your time. I would make a call to them. Ask what the issue was, if it was straight forward than, no I don't need to meet. I'll stop by, take a look, you will get a quote within 2 days. Of course in this realm of tree work if a tree is on the house that would need me to meet with the customer, and their insurance agent! Lol, but a straight removal, tag the tree and ill stop out in a day and QUOTE you a price. I used a camera just to keep track. Also to give the crew a scope of the job.
No estimate was done there unless it was a very easy job. Also if you use your lead to estimate for you where is his income coming from when he's selling? What about the rest of the crew?

I'm not saying you should hang out and bullshit with customers at all, I usually spend at most 10 min on a bid just because I'm mentally calculating my time I'm going to have to spend. I'm saying that most people despise salesmen, that's not their problem that they do, and if they are lying to you it's a reflection of what they are thinking about you. I don't care that the stereotype in this case is often true, I'm simply acknowledging that it's there. If they start lying, they don't trust you at that moment. So it's worth using the next 5 sentences you speak to them to reset the frame of the conversation to reflect that before spitting a number out and driving away. Finally, the guys doing the work likely make better sales, because they are the ones doing it. That way they aren't bidding for 10 different crews, they are bidding for their crew and that's it. If bidding is as simple as just giving them a number, why the hell would i even get out of the truck?

 

[Grnjp]

Also everything was in writing, so nothing off the cuff. Unless very small job.