Australian skyscrapers in the SoCal desert.
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davidwyby
Desert Beaver
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- #77
I was thinking it would be pretty easy assuming you knew your bar was exactly half the tree. Mark your minimum hinge thickness on the outside (I measured from a stake and laid this tree out before cutting) set your dogs there, and swing the tip in until it pops out the face where you can see it from where you are, instead of having to know where it is, or walking around the tree, or maybe over cutting. Then you’ll have two nice triangle shaped hinges on either side. Might actually increase accuracy as there’s nothing in the middle to throw it off…barring screwy grain that is.
@Marc-Antoine also I am assuming good solid live trees as in this case.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I so prefer a 20" or 28" to a 42" and required power head. Just so heavy.
32" and larger are a lot more unweildy, aloft.
I don't think that there is any concern about the center of the hinge throwing it off, just harder to tip. The rear of the hinge will rip fibers before the front.
32" and larger are a lot more unweildy, aloft.
So long as you leave enough on the sides, it doesn't need to be 1/2 the width. Gutting the middle helps it tip with thicker corners.
I don't think that there is any concern about the center of the hinge throwing it off, just harder to tip. The rear of the hinge will rip fibers before the front.
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
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- #80
@SeanKroll I agree, I have too many saws (and a truck to carry them) so I can usually match the bar to the wood and the powerhead to the bar. I stay as light as I can (left bicep issues). The trees here (as you can see) are generally very small at the top and very fat at the bottom, so that leads to a lot of variation in saw size on one tree. If I'm felling straight firs in the forest, 70cc and 28-30" does it all, unless the trees are big enough for 32-36" and 80-90 cc. 395, 3120, 42"(someday I will get the LW ones made), 60" are basically for bucking and milling big stuff...no wielding. Maybe felling with the 395 occasionally. Only saws that go in the tree (bucket) are up to 60cc and 24" maybe. Usually 2511/346. 346 will pull 24" of low pro, pretty handy.
On the fat center, I was just thinking if it was offset to one side it might push or pull.
On the fat center, I was just thinking if it was offset to one side it might push or pull.
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
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- #81
I think I learned something.
This one where the back cut was even with the top of the face hinged to some degree.
This one did not, I think partly messed up grain, and because my back cut was too high, so instead of the hinge folding away from the stump, it just snapped off at the top like it does with a standard wedge face.
This one where the back cut was even with the top of the face hinged to some degree.
This one did not, I think partly messed up grain, and because my back cut was too high, so instead of the hinge folding away from the stump, it just snapped off at the top like it does with a standard wedge face.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I don't know anything about eucs.
What do you mean about snapping if with a standard wedge face?
Momentum is your friend. As much as I like and use wedges, pull lines are useful in poor-hinging species.
Beware tall back-cuts and spiral grain.
Consider shaving the bark and looking at the grain of the wood in the hinge.
What do you mean about snapping if with a standard wedge face?
Momentum is your friend. As much as I like and use wedges, pull lines are useful in poor-hinging species.
Beware tall back-cuts and spiral grain.
Consider shaving the bark and looking at the grain of the wood in the hinge.
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
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- #83
That's the point of this fun - We're learning!
A std wedge face where the cuts meet forces a small amount of wood to flex and it breaks soon. The open block face is a lot more work but seems to hinge more. See how short the hinge time was here?
I pull them when it counts but I'm having fun with these spars. Automatic F700 is pretty handy for pulling over 40" spars. Need to get that vid up.
Here is one I pulled 180* from the fence...see how it kinda hinges? I was gonna triple hinge this one but I didn't want to with that codom.
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davidwyby
Desert Beaver
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- #85
Here is what I am trying (sometimes achieving) for getting brittle wood to hinge. Get it to flex like a boat or chair builder vs. just being in tension/compression.
I dropped another big spar tonight and it did not “split/peel/flex” hinge how I wanted. I think I figured out why, hinge too thin. On trees that leaned to the lay and didn’t need to be wedged (like tonight), I just cut until they go (without cutting them clear off the stump of course). This makes the hinge too thin at the top of the Open Block Face (yes it’s intentional) and the thin wood at the top of the face bends and breaks instead of folding down the face (like it does in the large back yard tree video where we winched it over) so now I know…tall open face, back cut even with top of face, thick hinge…and winch or pound wedges big time…but then I got another idea. We really just need the corners of the hinge, not the center, so if I gut the hinge, it will be easier to wedge over.
Now this next idea gets over into crazy land…When the back cut gets high, you are basically trying to pull the hinge straight up vs. tip the tree over…what if we use a less steep farmer back cut to wedge off of so the wedge is pushing the tree over instead of up? All fine an dandy until the back of the tree blows out and it goes over backwards…
*flame suit on*😆
I dropped another big spar tonight and it did not “split/peel/flex” hinge how I wanted. I think I figured out why, hinge too thin. On trees that leaned to the lay and didn’t need to be wedged (like tonight), I just cut until they go (without cutting them clear off the stump of course). This makes the hinge too thin at the top of the Open Block Face (yes it’s intentional) and the thin wood at the top of the face bends and breaks instead of folding down the face (like it does in the large back yard tree video where we winched it over) so now I know…tall open face, back cut even with top of face, thick hinge…and winch or pound wedges big time…but then I got another idea. We really just need the corners of the hinge, not the center, so if I gut the hinge, it will be easier to wedge over.
Now this next idea gets over into crazy land…When the back cut gets high, you are basically trying to pull the hinge straight up vs. tip the tree over…what if we use a less steep farmer back cut to wedge off of so the wedge is pushing the tree over instead of up? All fine an dandy until the back of the tree blows out and it goes over backwards…
*flame suit on*😆
gf beranek
Old Schooler
All makes good sense. Understanding wood fiber
Sloping back-cuts, however, can direct the force of a wedge to split out the back of the tree. In this particular case, as per your diagram, the stump side of the back-cut will split-out under the wedge.
Same when driving wedges in the region of root swell. in which case you split out the fibers on the tree side of the backcut. Bad ju ju. A tree can set back.
Sloping back-cuts, however, can direct the force of a wedge to split out the back of the tree. In this particular case, as per your diagram, the stump side of the back-cut will split-out under the wedge.
Same when driving wedges in the region of root swell. in which case you split out the fibers on the tree side of the backcut. Bad ju ju. A tree can set back.
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
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- #89
Ah, the austere art of the dead eucalyptus scraping the sky….
The one with the notch in the trunk is quite tall. I’d like to sink a saw in it and see if I can convince it not to land in the field. Don’t know if the fire was intentional or not.
The one with the notch in the trunk is quite tall. I’d like to sink a saw in it and see if I can convince it not to land in the field. Don’t know if the fire was intentional or not.
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #90
Fiber....I used to think of hinge wood as flexing or bending...with a conventional wedge face I don't think it does. The front half compresses and the back half tensions until it pulls/breaks. I think doug fir having the alternating soft and springy rings/fibers helps them hinge like tiny triple hinges...the soft fibers let the hard wood flex and pull. Euc is all hard and there is no give.
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gf beranek
Old Schooler
for what is that to be used?
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Funny, it looks like a scrape of sheet steel.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Definitely more practical approach. Nice chunk of steel nonetheless.
"Back in the day" I recall, 24 inch steel falling wedges were still in use. ol' timer told me, "tap them in. Don't pound them, or you end up compressing the wood without lifting the tree."
He was referring to setting a dozen or more wedges in the back of a tree, going down the line 'tap,tap, tap' and there she rises!
"Back in the day" I recall, 24 inch steel falling wedges were still in use. ol' timer told me, "tap them in. Don't pound them, or you end up compressing the wood without lifting the tree."
He was referring to setting a dozen or more wedges in the back of a tree, going down the line 'tap,tap, tap' and there she rises!
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
Carrying them in the forest should have been a nightmare
