Porting ''strato" saws?

[Jed]

Kevin, (cut4fun) recommended that I start a thread regarding what to do about these two disgusting 441 dogs our shop is, regrettably, stuck with.

Everyone universally hates these heavy tanks. They just need routine cleanings and carb tune-ups, granted, but these, in the past have already been done, and the saws still really don't run well.

It's for that reason that the shop manager has given me (a guy who has only ported one saw in his entire life) permission to try to do some kind of a hop-up on one or both of em. That's where you guys come in.

I've watched the little animation things on how the weird transfer ports on these strato-contraptions run, and they scare me to death--real temperamental from all I can make out. What I'm planning to do is to just hog-out the intake and exhaust port on the cylinder, port the muffler, and maybe try to mod the carb setup to accomodate a Max-Flow or "velocity stack" filter.

The videos that Kevin so generously sent me showed guys cutting with modded 441's that where clearly way, way better than ours, so I know that noticeable gains can be made.

Anyone care to place any bets on whether I reck em worse? Talk to me Al. What should I do or not do?

 

[SoonerFan]

I know absolutely nothing about what you are attempting to do. But, I want to say that I have the utmost faith in your endeavor.

Give it your best shot and let er rip!!!

 

[SkwerI]

I've been running ported saws for 10 years now and have had good ones and not so good ones. I know enough to know that I'm not going to build the strongest saw out there, and there's a good chance I could actually make the saw weaker. Therefore I find my best option is to box up the saw and send it to somebody who knows WTF they are doing. The builder I've used for the past 3 years is a fellow Treehouser, Timberwolf (Brian). He hangs out mostly on the saw forums but checks in here once in a while. Several here can vouch for his honesty, integrity and skill. Send him the saw and some money and get back a top notch machine.

 

[flushcut]

I have heard nothing but good about his work. On the other hand I have heard nothing good about porting a strato saw.

 

[Rborist1]

Up here in Canada Ed Heard does all of our building for us, we have 3 more on the way to us right now. I agree with Brian that you should use a pro when it comes to porting.

 

[sawinredneck]

Odd, I've heard a lot of good things about the stock 441's.
Timberwolf is great, but the knowledge base is around if you choose to tap into it and tackle this yourself.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I wish we had a solid saw builder here: that'd be good. Hell, he could have his own forum, FWIW.

 

[stig]

Odd, I've heard a lot of good things about the stock 441's.
.

I don't get it either. It is my main logging saw, I put somewhere around 1000 hours on it yearly.
I like the 441 a LOT. Good aircleaning system, low noice, no vibrations and plenty of power for the jobIMO.

But then I don't stick a 30" bar on it, and I know how to make a chain cut really well.

 

[Al Smith]

According to the way I understand it that design uses a trapped air charge to preform the blow down instead of a fuel charge as a normal saw .That would account for the appearance of a lean run .

It's a known fact that in order to get power you have to burn fuel so it would take less of that trapped air in the first portion of the transfer cycle to enhance the power of that thing .Rather it might be such a thing as to shorten the amount of air or restrict the air ports in such a way as to cause more to flow through the fuel ports .

That said though Toms' 441 runs just fine. Cuts as good or better than the 044/440 it replaced .

 

[woodworkingboy]

I agree with Brian that you should use a pro when it comes to porting.

If you are talking about the time that needs to be invested to get an understanding of the process, and the requirement to obtain the tooling to do it, I would agree that shipping your saw out and getting the completed mod back, is a relatively effortless way to go. If you are referring to not being able to obtain good results unless you are a pro, I would definitely disagree. The information is out there on how to do a reliable porting job that gives very satisfying results, including your first time at it. I think the only requirement is having the patience included in a sense of workmanship. Cool to have it done by a pro, Timberwolf, for example, is an awesome builder, and some fun and satisfaction is doing it yourself, and a big leap up the learning curve, is my point.

 

[Rborist1]

I agree that you can do it yourself but if you take too much off you can't put it back on.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Yep, and some saws are easier to do than others.

 

[sotc]

I wish we had a solid saw builder here: that'd be good. Hell, he could have his own forum, FWIW.

Sweet, i'm in!

 

[sotc]

Haha, I crack me up!

 

[sotc]

I agree that you can do it yourself but if you take too much off you can't put it back on.

Same is true with trees.....

 

[wiley_p]

I wouldn't waste the time. You can get a 440 and have it ported by a pro. The 441 never measured up to the 44/440. I feel that some folks have a skewed perspective on the new "Strato" saws. Side by side with the saw that they replaced, they are seriously lacking in the performance department.

 

[stig]

If I'm "some people" it is simply that I look at other things than raw power when evaluating a saw.
Probably a Euro thing, since we have seen the same thing in sports cars.
Americans value horsepower, whereas Europeans feel that the ability to drive around corners count for something ,too

 

[Cut4fun]

I only tested a stock one for a couple of cuts and I decided I didnt want to run it anymore. I came away with the thoughts of very smooth in the cuts and underpowered. JMO. I wasnt impressed with it power wise. Just the AV impressed me.

Now I ran a woods ported one at the Jan 2010 gtg and it wasnt the fastest in the cut time by no means compared to the non-strato saws in same class 70cc-80cc (most of the ones beating it had 4cc-9cc bigger motors), but dang it was like night and day from stock 441 to ported 441. Ported 441 had the torque and rpm's held in the cuts.

 

[wiley_p]

No Stig, you don't even count as some people. You are the nose in the air Dane who is more than happy to point out your superiority at any time. It's fine, for a flatlander you do have some good things to offer.

 

[stig]

I figured that my car comparison would get your goat



I have to admit that my favourite sportscar is American, sort of.

But Carrol Shelby used an English chassis to get the thing to handle right.

Now, if someone could build a saw like that; I'd be first in line to buy one.

 

[sotc]

whereas Europeans feel that the ability to drive around corners count for something ,too

But the way we file chains, allows us to cut straight as opposed to around corners!

 

[stig]

So you never cut corners?

 

[sotc]

Only 90 degree ones in two cuts

 

[squisher]

Well. I am unimpressed with my new 441 too. I bought it cause it was really cheap. It sits on the truck beside my TW460, guess which one is the go to saw. It's definetly quiet I'll give it that, I refer to it as the sewing machine.

I'm hoping Timberwolf checks in on this thread because I'm hoping to send him this 441 before to long in hopes that he can make it into a saw worth running.

At this point in the game I'm wishing I'd coughed up the extra four bills and got another 460.

Just my .02

 

[sotc]

Yeppie, bet ya doo