Kong Futura chest ascender

[DMc]

I recently got one of these in the hopes that it could replace the Petzl Croll in my climbing setup. It requires more care in placement than the Croll in order to have the rope feed smoothly and that is the only thing that the Croll does better. This thing is tiny and can be left in place all the time and not get in the way or snag on things. I would often remove the Croll if I thought I would not be needing it for the rest of the climb because it seems to catch on everything.
The Futura also has cone-shaped teeth that appear to be much gentler on the rope than the Croll.

All and all I like it better than the Croll.

Dave

http://www.karstsports.com/l432584.html

 

[rangerdanger]

Its Kong, so I'll pass on it. If they say a climbing comp isn't the correct setting for their equipment, then I'm not trusting my life to it in any scenario.

I am and forever will be a Kong hater because of that incident.

 

[Burnham]

I'm not recalling whatever incident to which you refer, Adrian. Can you enlighten me, please?

 

[Burnham]

Dave, does Kong list a breaking strength for that ascender?

 

[rangerdanger]

Jay Butcher was in a climbing comp(MI I believe) when the ring he was using on his bridge broke during the work climb when he was roughly 10 to 12 feet off the ground and he took a fall. Ended up having like $20k in medical expenses and lost wages(couldn't climb for a few months I believe) and Kong wouldn't pay a dime of it, because they said competition was not the correct work setting for their gear, and he was using it in a manner it was not intended to be used in.

This incident set off all the ring recalls of unmarked rings and is why most retailers only sell marked rings now.

 

[Burnham]

Ahh...of course I remember well the ring recalls. Thanks.

So, was he using in a manner it was not intended to be used in? Other than the competition angle?

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I would cut the loop on the ascender so as to have a straight cord. Then tie a bulky knot at the end in order to be able to easily grab it with a gloved hand. Seems like that loop could too easily be snagged.

 

[rangerdanger]

Their argument was a climbing competition is not the correct setting to use their products, and therefore had no reason to pay out money to Jay, even though pretty much everything we do in a climbing comp is just like what we do at work a lot of times.

 

[Burnham]

So it was the setting in which he was using the ring, rather than the manner in which he deployed it, if I get your drift?

 

[DMc]

Its Kong, so I'll pass on it. If they say a climbing comp isn't the correct setting for their equipment, then I'm not trusting my life to it in any scenario.

I am and forever will be a Kong hater because of that incident.

Certainly, that it is your choice. I do not think the same way. I have and will continue to judge each tool by its individual merits. Company CEO,s come and go and if you choose to limit what you are willing to use based on the disreputable acts by companies, if you research industry, there is not much you would be using.

I agree on not trusting your life to something but based on its capabilities, not who made it. Chest ascenders are all very weak and should be used as designed, to capture rope progress in combination with other tools of more substance.

Dave

 

[Burnham]

Well said, Dave.

 

[FJR]

Company CEO,s come and go and if you choose to limit what you are willing to use based on the disreputable acts by companies, if you research industry, there is not much you would be using.

I have to respectfully disagree. There are many companies out there with great ethics. It is not as much about making a mistake with a product, as it is about doing what is right after the mistake has happened. Kong flunked that test.

 

[DMc]

I have to respectfully disagree....

Of course there are companies with ethics. But if you look deeper at what point are you willing to compromise your own personal ethical standards?

Used any gas recenty? Bought any t-shirts lately? Coffee? What about Monsanto? Do you use any chemicals?

All of these type of companies have and continue to commit atrocities that affect thousands of people on some level or another. If you look for ethics, you will be sorely disappointed by the lack of clean slates.

Dave

 

[rangerdanger]

I agree with Fred here, the problem is not in the faulty product, but in the actions taken after the fact a faulty product fails. I'd wager just about any other major tree gear provider, be it Petzl to DMM, would have backed up their obligations 100% and given Jay his dues without much hassal.

 

[Burnham]

One would like to hope that is how it'd go...but I don't think I'd take that wager, A.

I'm the first to decry the litiginous nature of people today, at least here in the US...but this might have been an appropriate time for it?

 

[rangerdanger]

Also, ethics need not apply here I think. What it comes down to is a Kong product failed in a manner that was well within the products capabilities, and Kong refused to reimburse the guy who was using it. They flatly stated competition is not a suitable environment in which to use their products, even though its such a similar environment to our work one. As such, Kong products are now banned by most TCC's and many people no longer use them because of the manner in which Kong handled this situation.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Personally, a company that sells a defective product that is used for life support (untested rings) and has no ethics about doing so, nor the ethics to make things right after the facts rear their ugly head, I have a real problem doing business with ever again. No, a chest ascender is not life support in most cases.. but the principle of making money over the value of some one's life or quality of life just runs against my grain.
JMFOI
You are right Dave in that if we knew everything about every company, our choices would be severely limited. But when I do know about blatant disregard for said ethics or human life by a company, I will not go screaming off to them with my wallet wide open to finance further sin.

 

[rangerdanger]

One would like to hope that is how it'd go...but I don't think I'd take that wager, A.

I'm the first to decry the litiginous nature of people today, at least here in the US...but this might have been an appropriate time for it?

Yeah, I hear ya B, I guess my point is since companies like DMM and especially Petzl, see that their products are not just used in a work environment, but in a competition one as well, they are more likely and obligated to pay out for an accident like Jay's, compared to Kong, who is not as involved in this as those companies.

 

[Burnham]

One wonders if the failure had occurred in a recreational use, what Kong's response would have been.

Just to make sure I understand, Adrian...the issue for Kong was not in how the climber had encorporated the ring into his climbing system, but was soley based on the fact that it happened in a competitive situation?

 

[DMc]

You are right Dave in that if we knew everything about every company, our choices would be severely limited. But when I do know about blatant disregard for said ethics or human life by a company, I will not go screaming off to them with my wallet wide open to finance further sin.

But you do know, as do we all, of the many appalling actions taken by companies we deal with on a regular basis.

If I find it within my ability to effect a positive change, through my actions, I will do so. But I will not waste my time screaming at the sky when the weather turns bad.

Life is full of choices, it is what we do all the time, not just in some instances, that makes us who we are.

Dave

 

[rangerdanger]

Correct B, their problem lied in the competition setting.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Seems to me that Dollar Vote is sometimes the most effective. In this case, people started a campaign to stop it from happening again by boycotting Kong. This is a message sent to Kong and all manufacturers.

They turned a cold shoulder on Jay, from what I've read, even though the competition setting is essentially the same as a work setting. I don't think that Jay was 400 pounds, overloading the system. I don't know what Kong advertised their rings to have as a MBS or SWL.

IIRC, he was trying not get his medical bills paid, 20K, not pain and suffering or lost wages.

Its tough for a company, too. If they paid medical bills, does that somehow constitute and admission of guilt?

It is a necessary evil to deal with companies whose choices we don't want to choose. Sucks. Would mean living like the Dick what's his name in the Alaskan cabin in the wilderness in order to do so.

I'm interested in the Futura ascender, as the design looks great, however, I'm not planning on buying one. I wish someone else would manufacture a minimalist ascender.

 

[Burnham]

Personally, a company that sells a defective product that is used for life support (untested rings) and has no ethics about doing so, nor the ethics to make things right after the facts rear their ugly head, I have a real problem doing business with ever again. No, a chest ascender is not life support in most cases.. but the principle of making money over the value of some one's life or quality of life just runs against my grain.
JMFOI
You are right Dave in that if we knew everything about every company, our choices would be severely limited. But when I do know about blatant disregard for said ethics or human life by a company, I will not go screaming off to them with my wallet wide open to finance further sin.

This statement (I bolded it, above) puzzles me, Stephen. It sure is in my SRT system.

Getting into derail territory .

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I thought they were only considered an aid for ascending and not considered actual life support. Sort of like a pantin.
I guess it would also matter what system you use in wearing the ascender as well.

 

[Altissimus]

... loved my Kong double ... until the handles started breaking ....just the plastic! .... tried. And tried to get manufacturer to re-grip the unit ...NEVER was able to get a response either way .... crap back up! ... gave the ascender to Joel (RiskyBiz) .... went to a CMI